Ozelot and Gepard 1A2 should be the same BR as other vehicles with Fim-92s

[Pangolin_Fan]

@dotSHINI

Look at the table i did with comparisons. It fits right into its br. Your claims are just false and you have done kothing to prove me wrong.

You’ve done nothing to counter my claims, and I’ve done plenty to prove that SAMs shouldn’t be facing WW2 vehicles.

@dotSHINI

M163 at 7.3 is a way worse offender why dont i see u fighting that?

I’ve destroyed dozens of hovets in AD-4s, Corsairs, P-51H-5, F-84B-26 (by strafing), all with ease. M163 is not an offender.

@dotSHINI

You are movinf them not me.

You were trying to say that I changed what BR this discussion was about, I’m simply stating that it’s always been about 8.3-9.0 planes v.s 9.7 SPAA.

@dotSHINI

But its still valid and good and its gun works well.

Meh not really. Its gun is pretty weak and has 0 range. Its survivability is awful, being easily destroyed by even .50cals.

[markimash]

@Pangolin_Fan

WW2 vehicles.

Ah yes, ww2…

@Pangolin_Fan

it’s always been about 8.3-9.0 planes v.s 9.7 SPAA.

Good thing 8.3 cant see 9.7 unless you go out of your way to put yourself at a disadvantage.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@markimash

Good thing 8.3 cant see 9.7 unless you go out of your way to put yourself at a disadvantage.

F-84F (which should be 7.7 anyways) is forced into 8.7 and 9.0 battles because there are no other options.

Even then, the 9.3s and 9.7s don’t fair particularly well against stingers anyways.

[markimash]

@Pangolin_Fan

is forced into 8.7 and 9.0 battles

Its only “forced” there because you are so picky on having your handheld by ccrp.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@markimash

Its only “forced” there because you are so picky on having your handheld by ccrp.

In that case, we can just move Gepard to 9.0, Ozelot to 10.0, and Gepard 1A2 to 10.3 because of the handholding they provide.

[markimash]

Being able to actually threaten good cas players =/= handheld

[Pangolin_Fan]

SPAA, and especially SAM SPAA is the textbook definition of being handheld, that’s all it is. It’s the easiet, most braindead role in Warthunder.

[G3ntl3man95]

interesting perpective… ozelot vs lav-ad ozelot have only aa missile lav-ad have gun,rockets, and aa missile and u want to add in same br gg, same zsu 23-4m4 have gun and aa missile 9.3, 93 type aa missile in 9.3 , pgz04a gun and aa missile in 9.3 ,sidam25 mistral gun and missile 9.7, french same 9.3-9.7 better missile vs stinger israel same and u want the put gepard in 10.3 look at the tunguska in 10.7 have ap same radar vs toptier german spaa and good missile so one question what is u problem with german spaas?

[dotSHINI]

@Pangolin_Fan

You’ve done nothing to counter my claims, and I’ve done plenty to prove that SAMs shouldn’t be facing WW2 vehicles.

I did it just goes straight over your head that spaas are balanced to fight the planes at the same br as themself.
Uptiers are just a thing in the game and you cant deal with a mechanic that happens at every br.

@Pangolin_Fan

I’ve destroyed dozens of hovets in AD-4s, Corsairs, P-51H-5, F-84B-26 (by strafing), all with ease. M163 is not an offender.

You can do that as well against ozelots, gepards etc. They arent invincible. M163 is still a bad offender no matter what you claim.
You say the cannon is so bad, but ignore that its a ground modified cannon that is literaly used on every modern american jet.
Its proven its reliablity heavily. If you cant deal with it thats a you problem. Its only slightly restricted in fire rate jut still plenty fast and deals heavy damage against aircraft.
Its a cannon that is used at 14.0 ARB at 7.3 GRB.

@Pangolin_Fan

You were trying to say that I changed what BR this discussion was about, I’m simply stating that it’s always been about 8.3-9.0 planes v.s 9.7 SPAA.

Yeah and m247 and chaparral are just as bad offenders then. They work great and still fight against ww2 planes. What are ww2 planes without flares supposed to do? Or m247 that straight up deletes them?

And you still have not brought up proof gepard or ozelot should be moved up. They still fit right into eveey other spaa at their BR.
Its still only your claims of mimimi.
You are continuing to be a hypocrit.
You ignore my proofs and dont provide them yourself. If you look at 10.7 you literaly find the 2s6 which beats the gepard compeltly in every aspect. A 0.4 br difference between those 2 vehicles is compeltly senseless and is single proof enough why your suggestion will never happen from gajins sights

[markimash]

@dotSHINI

Uptiers are just a thing in the game and you cant deal with a mechanic that happens at every br.

It isnt even about uptiers. He is going out of his way to take a plane above its it br spread.

He is so spoiled by the other brs that he never learned how to deal with spaa that can effectively attack him before he can drop bombs.

[DiamondCraftLP]

@Pangolin_Fan

More than just America get the F-84F

I wonder whos fault that is…
Have you seen any tech-tree post war. Almost all of them share a lot of vehicles.

@Pangolin_Fan

• Alpha Jet
• Other Alpha Jet

Both Alpha Jets A and E are 9.0 in Ground RB, making them 0.7 BR higher than the F-84F. You are comparing apples to pears. Check you BRs again.

@Pangolin_Fan

SAAB-105

As I said before, you even quoted me on that one:

@DiamondCraftLP

one of 2 aircraft

Meaning the F-84F in as 1 of 2 and the SAAB as nr2 of 2.

@Pangolin_Fan

My reason is not wanting to bring WW2 aircraft up against radar SPAA and IR missiles

@markimash

Ah yes, ww2…

My dude, the F-84F is not only not WW2, but not even Korea. Check your dates.

The only WW2 “jets” 9.7 can face are the Me-163 B-0 and the Ki-200, both of which are very, very overtiered. If Germany could built this good of an interceptor, I wonder why they didn’t just built more of them. BR-wise they should be better than a MiG-15.

@Pangolin_Fan

Geppy 1A2 is the power of two specialized SPAA combined. You can kinda make an argument for Ozelot, but Geppy 1A2 being as low as 9.7 is a load of BS.

I wanna see you face when you find out about the Shilka-M4, the PGZ04A and the Machbet at 9.3 and the Sidarm 25 Mistral at 9.7.

@Pangolin_Fan

Everyone except America

America has the M247 at 9.0 with tracerless proxy rounds, making it very hard for pilots to see. You even got a tracking radar with a lead indicator.

@Pangolin_Fan

I was simply pointing out that the idea that America has the best/most CAS at that BR is a load of crap.

America might not have the best CAS (I wouldn’t know the best CAS myself), but since every single fighter has the capability to carry at least 2 1000lb bombs, I would say they damn well have a lot of CAS. More than some nations combined.

@Pangolin_Fan

Name a single 7.7-8.7 SPAA that America has.

Name a single 7.0 to 8.3 SPAA Germany has (if you say Wiesel, you have lost all your marbles).
Name a single 8.3 to 10.0 SPAA the UK has.
Name a single 5.3 to 8.3 SPAA Japan has.
Name a single 6.3 to 8.7 SPAA France has.

[dotSHINI]

@DiamondCraftLP

Name a single 7.0 to 8.3 SPAA Germany has (if you say Wiesel, you have lost all your marbles)

Luchs duhhhhh

[PercussionCap]

@Pangolin_Fan

Gepard 1A2 should be at 10.3

Why should it be at 10.3?

[MotorolaCRO]

@Pangolin_Fan

Everyone except America . . .

US has literally the best SPAAG in M247.

@Pangolin_Fan

Everyone claims that, then provides 0 proof, and conviently ignore the fact that M247 is bigger, slower, has literally 0 anti-tank cappability, and at a higher BR.

I’ve played both and M247 is handily ahead for AA duties.
It has HE-VT rounds that have no tracers, meaning CAS has literally no way of dodging incoming fire.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@G3ntl3man95

interesting perpective… ozelot vs lav-ad ozelot

Both get stingers. It’s also pretty goof that Gepard 1A2 is lower than LAV-AD

@dotSHINI

I did it just goes straight over your head that spaas are balanced to fight the planes at the same br as themself.

Most SPAAs are balanced to fight the vehicles within their BR range, Ozelot and Gepard 1A2 are “balanced” to fight vehicles ABOVE their br range.

@dotSHINI

M163 is still a bad offender no matter what you claim.

It’s not, you’re simply biased against America. If M163 caused issues, I can assure you i’d be the first to complain.

@dotSHINI

Yeah and m247 and chaparral are just as bad offenders then.

If they were 8.3, then yes, but they aren’t.

@markimash

It isnt even about uptiers.

You’re right, this is about the downtiers Ozelot and Gepard gets.

@DiamondCraftLP

I wonder whos fault that is…
Have you seen any tech-tree post war. Almost all of them share a lot of vehicles.

And it still disproves your point.

@DiamondCraftLP

Both Alpha Jets A and E are 9.0 in Ground RB, making them 0.7 BR higher than the F-84F. You are comparing apples to pears. Check you BRs again.

this post has been about 8.3-9.0 the entire time. Stop moving goalposts.

@DiamondCraftLP

I wanna see you face when you find out about the Shilka-M4, the PGZ04A and the Machbet at 9.3 and the Sidarm 25 Mistral at 9.7.

Haven’t encountered a Sidam or Matchbet on the enemy team, so idk why you want me to complain about them.

And yes, I agree Shilka-M4 is undertiered.

@DiamondCraftLP

America has the M247

Slow, big, no anti-tank capabilities, no armor. It’s really not that impressive, and a plane with RWR defeats the whole purpose of stealth shells.

@DiamondCraftLP

but since every single fighter has the capability to carry at least 2 1000lb

This isn’t a discussion about 7.0s.

@DiamondCraftLP

Name a single 7.0 to 8.3 SPAA Germany has

Gepard

@DiamondCraftLP

Name a single 8.3 to 10.0 SPAA the UK has.

Falcon, Za-35, Chieftan Marksman, all excellent vehicles mind you.

@DiamondCraftLP

Name a single 5.3 to 8.3 SPAA Japan has.

Type 87

@DiamondCraftLP

Name a single 6.3 to 8.7 SPAA France has.

AMX-30

Yeah it’s 8.7, but an 8.7 SPAA is more than America could even dream of.

@MotorolaCRO

US has literally the best SPAAG in M247.

Meh it’s ok. It’s useless against ground, and overshadowed by SAMs against air.

[dotSHINI]

@Pangolin_Fan

Most SPAAs are balanced to fight the vehicles within their BR range, Ozelot and Gepard 1A2 are “balanced” to fight vehicles ABOVE their br range.

G91. YS
IAR -93B
Jaguar Gr 1
Harrier GR 3
Bucaneer s2
Ayit
Q-5A
Mig21f3
Yak 38m
Yak 28b
Mig21s
Su 7 bmk
Mig 23bn

Those are in fact all the aircraft stinger missles are balanced again fairly and where they are needed with many even having ccip for rockets
Gepard1a2 and ozelot even have a slighter br increase then other stinger users since they have advantages like irst or can be used in tank destroying capability as well.

Its just that US specialy sucks at that br.
The stinger spaas are completly valid at that br

[Pangolin_Fan]

Stingers have the advantage over most of those.

[dotSHINI]

@Pangolin_Fan

over most of those.

So you did acknowledge there is aircraft it is balanced again on 9.7 which is the highest br i postet and they actualy are balanced against the best aircraft at their tier.
Spaas arent balanced against the worst planes they face like the crappy US stuff, but the best ones at the same like for quick example mig21s

Stuff cant be fairly balanced against everything.
In this case i can only recommend you to play better CAS atbthe same br with another nation

[PercussionCap]

@Pangolin_Fan

Both get stingers. It’s also pretty goof that Gepard 1A2 is lower than LAV-AD

Why would the Gepard 1A2 be at the same BR as the LAV-AD? Since you think the Stinger is so strong you should be asking for the LAV-AD with its 16x Stingers to be much higher than a vehicle with 4x of them.

[dotSHINI]

Theoreticaly 8 vs 32 or sth like that with the refill ammo boxes