Ozelot and Gepard 1A2 should be the same BR as other vehicles with Fim-92s

[Pangolin_Fan]

@markimash

Yup. Standard definition for cas outranging spaa is:

Cas can take out ground targets while remaining outside of effective spaa range.

Do I need to spell this out for you?
The F-84F (for example) outranges the Gepard using CCRP

Now, an F-84F needs to stay far away from a Gepard to not get shredded. “far away”, or a “safe distance” usually means you’re at about the max range that you could spot a tank.

However, you close a considerable distance when setting a Gepard as your target point, and lining up for a CCRP bomb toss.

This means that by the time you’re ready to drop, you have gone from a “safe” distance to “you’re gonna die” distance.

This means, you need to stay extra far away, which also means spotting tanks is incredibly difficult, ESPECIALLY if they’re not moving (remember this, it’s important)

Now, at this “extra far” distance, the Gepard can lock onto you and get a lead indicator, which 90% of the time means they will try to shoot at you.

You’re still too far to be hit if you make so much as a minor course correction, and so the Gepard is only harming themself by revealing their location.

Now, all you needa do is set the Gepard as a target point, and drop your bomb all whilst staying at a relatively safe distance.

This is an example of being able to outrange SPAA

But here’s the kicker. Remember what I said about it being incredibly hard to spot tanks at a safe distance? ESPECIALLY non-moving ones? Well, as it turn out, CCRP only works against stationary targets.

This means, you either need to get close enough to spot a non-moving target and use CCRP to bomb him, or get close enough to just drop your bombs on som1 (moving or non moving) without using your ballistics computer.

Both of these put you well within the you’re gonna die distance, and so if there’s any SPAA who wasn’t stupid enough to shoot at a plane who’s out of range, or an SPAA just spawned in, you’re pretty much fucked no matter what, and F-84F isn’t agile enough to dodge radar SPAA.

This means you either need to stay too far from the battlefield to bomb normal tanks, or get close enough to risk being shot down (and believe me, there is another SPAA waiting for you 90% of the time)

Now, do you understand how you can outrange SPAA without having free range to kill normal tanks?

@realshatterisbad

You were literally keeping to top tier or Fnf conversation going. I do not want to make this about top tier. Again, it is ok to want to change the subject back to the original post, you dont have to get mad at me.

All of your messages in the past 20 minutes have been about toptier. I’m not gonna waste any more time with you.

[markimash]

@Pangolin_Fan

Now, do you understand how you can outrange SPAA without having free range to kill normal tanks?

If you cant effectively take out tanks outside of effective spaa range, you are not outranging spaa.

There must be a sizable gap between what we both define as “outranging spaa”. For me, being able to lob a dumb bomb from 7km and praying that it hits something is not what i would consider “outranging spaa”

If it is a large enough bomb, like the pe8’s 5 ton, then it would be outranging spaa due to it being able to effectively get kills from outside of spaa range.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@markimash

If you cant effectively take out tanks outside of effective spaa range, you are not outranging spaa.

That’s not what outranging SPAA means, it’s not how people use the term, and it’s not how I’m using the term.

outranging SPAA means you can effectively take out SPAA at a longer range than it can take it you.

[markimash]

@Pangolin_Fan

outranging SPAA means you can effectively take out SPAA at a longer range than it can take it you

That is basically the exact same thing. You cant effectively take out a gepard with a 5km+ bomb lob, unless you have a large enough bomb to kill him after he drives off.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@markimash

That is basically the exact same thing. You cant effectively take out a gepard with a 5km+ bomb lob, unless you have a large enough bomb to kill him after he drives off.

I take it you’ve never used CCRP before . . .

I can only recall one time I’ve ever seen a Gepard start moving after I’ve dropped my bomb.

[markimash]

@Pangolin_Fan

I take it you’ve never used CCRP before

i have. last i checked, it doesnt change anything about the bomb itself.

@Pangolin_Fan

I can only recall one time I’ve ever seen a Gepard start moving after I’ve dropped my bomb.

Skill issue on their part. Many such cases of bad spaa players.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@markimash

Skill issue on their part. Many such cases of bad spaa players.

Yes, and if it weren’t for their skill issue, Gepards would be just about untouchable to CAS.

[markimash]

@Pangolin_Fan

if it weren’t for their skill issue, Gepards would be just about untouchable to CAS

Im confused now. Does your ccrp outrange the gepard or not?

Skill issue on the spaa’s part is not a consideration.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@markimash

Im confused now. Does your ccrp outrange the gepard or not?

Skill issue on the spaa’s part is not a consideration.

CCRP outranges Gepards, if they’re dumb enough to stay still after you drop your bomb, which is about 99% of SPAA players.

[realshatterisbad]

@Pangolin_Fan

CCRP outranges Gepards, if they’re dumb enough to stay still after you drop your bomb, which is about 99% of SPAA players.

Then what is the problem with stingers? Dodge the stinger (extremely easy), drop your bomb, and then fly away.

[markimash]

@Pangolin_Fan

if they’re dumb enough to stay still after you drop your bomb

In that case, the A4E outranges all spaa. Correct?

[markimash]

@realshatterisbad

Then what is the problem with stingers?

I assume it is because the stinger outranges him. It can effectively be launched before he can drop bombs. At lower brs, he can drop bombs before spaa engage him effectively.

At least that is the only reason i can think of. They not hard to spot and dodge unless you have some overloaded attacker.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@markimash

In that case, the A4E outranges all spaa. Correct?

Yeaaaaaah no.
Its camera sucks, it only gets two Walleyes, and the Walleyes only track vehicles at very close distance, well within stinger range. It has the same issue with CCRP where if the target moves after you drop, then your bomb just hits the ground where they used to be.

It’s definetly an improvement over CCRP (especially now that it’s on an actually usable airframe), however it’s a 9.3 plane, meaning it still doesn’t solve the issue of 8.7s facing Stingers.

@markimash

I assume it is because the stinger outranges him. It can effectively be launched before he can drop bombs. At lower brs, he can drop bombs before spaa engage him effectively.

At least that is the only reason i can think of. They not hard to spot and dodge unless you have some overloaded attacker.

The issue is the F-84F can’t dodge for shit, and it loses shitloads of speed if you so much as THINK about dodging, and the only other 8.7 option is A-4B, and I don’t even needa explain why bullpups go poorly against stingers.

The only planes that have both CCRP, and an airframe that actually has the physical ability to dodge stingers (AV-8C and F-100D) are far higher than they should be. If they were 8.3 or 8.7, then that would solve the issue, but they ain’t.

[markimash]

@Pangolin_Fan

Yeaaaaaah no.
Its camera sucks, it only gets two Walleyes, and the Walleyes only track vehicles at very close distance

Just drop from like 10km out.

@Pangolin_Fan

CCRP outranges Gepards, if they’re dumb enough to stay still after you drop your bomb

@Pangolin_Fan

The issue is the F-84F

That could also be an issue. Uptiering planes doesnt always work out well

[Pangolin_Fan]

@markimash

Just drop from like 10km out.

Its camera is too trash to see enemies from that far out (ESPECALLY a tiny lil Ozelot) and it still doesn’t track the vehicles from that far.

@markimash

That could also be an issue. Uptiering planes doesnt always work out well

It’s a 7.7 airframe that’s being pulled into 9.0 battles because there’s literally no other usable option.

[markimash]

@Pangolin_Fan

it still doesn’t track the vehicles from that far

And? If ccrp outranges the gepard because “they might not move” than point locking 100% outranges.

@Pangolin_Fan

there’s literally no other usable option

Is this for an 8.7 lineup?

[Pangolin_Fan]

@markimash

And? If ccrp outranges the gepard because “they might not move” than point locking 100% outranges.

When using CCRP, the Gepard is usually firing at you for the entire time you spend setting them as a target, lining up to drop, and the fall time of the bomb itself. In other words, they’re too distracted shooting at a plane to move.

Dropping a Walleye, on the other hand, means they have no target to shoot at, and the Walleye is gonna be falling for a longer amount of time than the entirety of the interaction beteen an F-84F and a Gepard.

@markimash

Is this for an 8.7 lineup?

Yes, the F-84F is the only option for 8.3, 8.7, and 9.0 lineups.

[markimash]

@Pangolin_Fan

In other words, they’re too distracted shooting at a plane to move.

Skill issue on the spaa’s part is not an argument for saying that the f84f outranges the gepard.

@Pangolin_Fan

the F-84F is the only option for 8.3, 8.7, and 9.0 lineups

debatable. If you need to use ccrp, than yes, you are correct.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@markimash

Skill issue on the spaa’s part is not an argument for saying that the f84f outranges the gepard.

Ok, I’ll put it this way. Without CCRP, you are completely hopeless against a Gepard. Having CCRP allows you to outrange one.

[markimash]

@Pangolin_Fan

you are completely hopeless against a Gepard

I wouldnt say completely hopeless. But it would be more difficult.

@Pangolin_Fan

Having CCRP allows you to outrange one

I would argue that ccrp doesnt allow you to outrange the gepard. Sure it lets you better lob bombs from outside their range. However, those bombs are not going to be effective.