Opinion: Put M1A1 and IPM1 To 10.3

Game Discussion General Discussion
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https://wiki.warthunder.com/T34

Could it be possible that gun caliber is not all that matters when it comes to a tank, and the mix of the mobility, reload and perfectly capable rounds on the L7 is what keeps them at the BR they are. The IPM1 especially massively overperformed at 10.7 when it was there. The 10.3 M1 Abrams has a far better reload to the 2A4, and has better mobility and turret rotation speed, and trades worse armour and a worse round. These are more than fair tradeoffs, especially when the 2A4 still has many weakspots that can easily be penned by 774 and the increase in performance that the 120mm L44 gives isnt meaningful against the majority of tanks that you will face, because you will always be wanting to aim for weakspots or places where you can oneshot by crew elimination.

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64

Perhaps. Either US tech tree’s tanks are overtiered deliberately, or other nations’ vehicles are undertiered deliberately, in order to achieve artificial “balance”.

Yet clearly, that balance is set upon the US tech tree rather than others, and still with several fixes needed (hello turret ring).

Which leads to the question of why the M1 and M1 KVT don’t have the M833, which they functionally ought to have.

I’m quite tired of people using casual skill issue or sarcasm as a means to dismiss the obvious.

Hence I make this opinion that the M1A1 and IPM1 are overtiered, or the others are undertiered.

Edit:

Also, Abrams’ hydraulics being shot out still freezes the entire turret ring, which has been agreed upon is a major upset point and also categorically incorrect, since there are manual back-ups.

In lieu of this being fixed, they’re still going to suffer more turret ring locks than many others undertiered than them.

65

Only the turret ring & mantlet.

3BM42

Same as above & right turret cheek at flatter angles.

JM33

As above.

And let’s not talk about the hulls.

Because even with M1A1s not being the greatest there is, it still is far better than M60s thus it contradicts the narrative you’ve subscribed to i.e; M1A1 needs to be at the same BR as tanks that have even worse armors, have longer reloads, and if it were to keep M829A1, vastly inferior firepower?

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I just showed you that the undertiered tanks do not have vastly inferior firepower.

I also pointed out that said DM23 stayed intact after impacting the front armor array at its thickest point.

So is this is a programming issue?

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Bait use to be believable.
France has an M1A1 equivalent tank at 11.7.
M1A1 is such an easy tank to use.

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Skill issue imo. Played yesterday with the M1A1 multiple uptiers. 4-8 kills each game.

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Opinion:

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I can put up the rest of my stats again if you need them.

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Dont need them. Troll somewhere else. WoT forums are supposed to be nice these days i hear. Go there.

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72

Congrats to you. You do the same with a Leopard 2 premium, I don’t doubt.

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The hi and lo is that Gaijin balances off statistics, not opinions, which is why there are plenty of unbalanced vehicles in game, but the majority of vehicles are reasonably well balanced.

This gets brought up so much, and is a completely pointless argument to make. What would you like them to do, remove any weakspots from the vehicle? Should they do that to every vehicle in the game so noone can kill anyone else? Your tank has weakspots, just as every other tank does, you have more than enough to make up for it, and you have to learn to play around it, like you have done for every vehicle up to that point in the tree.

Because they are performing just fine where they are, without 833, and adding it to them would upset that balance. The M1 is probably the best 10.3 vehicle in the game, it is incredibly powerful and capable in every situation you will find yourself in.

Such as? The 2A4 is a very stong vehicle, and really shouldnt be seeing the current 9.3’s, but this is a compression issue. The T-72’s have a plethora of issues that restict their performance in a lot of common situations, same with the T-80B, the 10.3 Ariete is a fine vehicle, but does everything worse than the M1 but has a better gun and round, which as i’ve already said, is just not needed at the BR, the Challenger 1’s are good vehicles as well, but again do basically everything worse than the M1 apart from again the gun and round, but do have semi-decent turret armour, which means that you have to aim for the weakspots you should be aiming for anyway, and France and Israel dont have 10.3’s. For 11.0’s, there isnt one for germany, the T-80U still suffers from the issues of all the T-series, but has a bit more armour, the Type-90 is a complete glass cannon, and does have a lot going for it, but does take some map knowledge to play and the Merkava 3’s are not anywhere close to the rest of these vehicles. The only one of these vehicles that really could go up is the Type-90, but even then, it would suffer in comparison to the rest of the 11.3’s in the hands of the average player, because it does actually take some skill to play well. The M1A1 keeps the mobility and reload, but gives a straight upgrade in terms of gun performance, which is why it is an analogue to the IPM1, you trade a tiny bit of mobility for a better gun with a slightly better round.

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After 5 games? Come back after 100 and we can talk about your feedback.

75

Never bought the leo prems, I find them p2w monstrosities :)

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Yes, and as evidenced, I’ve played the Type 90 series pretty well. They have machine-gun 120s and the JM33 which performs at 11.3 rating.

So what trade-offs are there to putting the M1A1 and IPM1 at a lower BR when they keep this glaring weakspot?

The T72s’ trade-offs usually are offset with ERA that will eat most any round short of 11.3 and above rounds.

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I gave up WOT years ago, please see yourself out.

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410mm (DM23 - need to aim for weakpoints against a hull down M1A1) versus 598mm (M829A1 - can shoot anywhere it wants against any non-Russian MBT), like, what?

I also pointed out that said DM23 stayed intact after impacting the front armor array at its thickest point.

You’ve showed a static screenshot of you dying to DM23 without showing where it had impacted, lol.

Your crutches here are the 3BM-42 and JM33, both of which have just enough perforation to go through the weaker right cheek given favorable circumstances (angle, elevation, etc), here’s the thing;

3BM-42 throwers (in your case, T-80UD) sacrifice one or two things in order to have that sort of power at such low BR, namely, thermal sights, and/or reverse speed, + gun-handling.

Type 90s on the other hand, JM33 and quick reload is their entire shtick, as they are pretty much worse than the M1A1 & M1IP in every other way (well, their acceleration is slightly better).

I, quite frankly, think you’ve a skill issue, anyhow;

Spoiler

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DM23 can pen M1A1 on the turret ring and mantlet.

M829A1 can pen Leopard 2A4 everywhere… and 1 full second faster each time, too.

There are issues with the Abrams family MBTs, particularly SEP, AIM and, most of all, SEPv2; but M1A1 not being immune as a 11.0 is NOT one of them and suggesting it is is putting an enormous stain on our efforts to address actually legitimate issues.

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Because they have better rounds and mobility than the tanks at the lower BR’s, and they vastly overperformed when they were previously lower. As evidenced by the Type-90, having no armour isnt a problem if you are not being shot, if it isnt a problem for the Type-90 then why is it a problem for the M1A1 and IPM1? The Abrams have a worse reload, but the tradeoff is that JM33 is worse than both M900 and M829A1 and the Abrams have better gun handling and depression.

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Another thing we need to fix since Type 90 and Type 10 all have electrical drives that turn as fast as any Abrams.

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Pretty big ring there, Spanish. Hence why I questioned why the Leopard 2 survived a shot.