when anything unusual happens there are procedures for pilots to follow, those procedures have their reason, it’s not like a manual for a car that anyone can buy anywhere, they don’t apply any safety deviations so that the pilot doesn’t fly faster than he should, the pilot must know the exact limits so that he never reaches them. there are procedures for both car drivers and military aircraft pilots, and especially for them. Those manuals and procedures were written by people who know best, they invented and designed the aircraft. the pilot is not the person who makes decisions in these situations alone, the pilot must respect the procedures and the manual. reality is not topgun where the maverick has the task of flying MACH 10 and no more, but he will still try more. if you follow something, then according to the manuals and procedures for extraordinary events. I showed enough examples, presented all possible factors that affect the pilot. showed possible solutions, if any of the developers are reading this, they’ll probably take something from me, who searched, read, and came to a conclusion that makes more than enough sense.
In regular flight. To save aircraft resource.
Pilots went above instruction limits in battles during War.
Do you want to forbid players to use gear and flaps when they want to? They often use em outside the permitted speed.
And thay fall off.
Where have you read that?
Canopy falls off too. Some planes just haven’t it.
In books, memoirs
Then pilot will feel the disconfort, of the tempriture, airflow and noise.
In the book named Le Grand Cirque, written by Pierre Clostermanna, is written that pilots back in WW2 feared pulling hight Gs because noone was sure if pulling that hard cant lead to some long time medical issues. So here are those limits.
Pilots in WW2 went into uncontrollable dives and crashed, because they overspeed their planes much chasing enemies.
Again, show me where yo read this.
This leads to nowhere, you say pilots doesnt feel any disconfort without cabine I say thay do. We both agree the prashure change outside is a problem but that is all.
I never said it.
Moreover, I insisted on applying some handicaps on pilot “skills” and vision and hearing obstruction.
How else can we simulate those effects on pilot?
Stun, concussion.
Like in other games.
So like black out?
Ok, that is one of the things I suggested, I showed all the possibilitys and I all of us can agree on this one it shiuld be applyed in game.
Yes, kind of.
Blurred vision, stunning noise. Slowed controls reactions.
I can agree on this. If we make a suggestion about it, we can put there everyting that effect an pilot and say, that in a discussen we ended here with stun witch will do the work.
From a finnish pilot interview:
“The maximum speed not to be exceeded was 750kmh. Once I was flying above Helsinki as I received a report of Russkies in the South. There was a big Cumulus cloud on my way there but I decided to fly right through. I centered the controls and then something extraordinary happened. I must have involuntarily entered into half-roll and dive. The planes had individual handling characteristics; even though I held the turning indicator in the middle, the plane kept going faster and faster, I pulled the stick, yet the plane went into an ever steeper dive.
In the same time she started rotating, and I came out of the cloud with less than one kilometer of altitude. I started pulling the stick, nothing happened, I checked the speed, it was about 850kmh. I tried to recover the plane but the stick was as if locked and nothing happened. I broke into a sweat of agony: now I am going into the sea and cannot help it. I pulled with both hands, groaning and by and by she started recovering, she recovered more, I pulled and pulled, but the surface of the sea approached, I thought I was going to crash. I kept pulling until I saw that I had survived. The distance between me and the sea may have been five meters. I pulled up and found myself on the coast of Estonia.
If I in that situation had used the vertical trim the wings would have been broken off. A minimal trim movement has a strong effect on wings when the speed limit has been exceded. I had 100kmh overspeed! It was out of all limits.
The Messerschmitt’s wings were fastened with two bolts. When I saw the construction I had thought that they are strong enough but in this case I was thinking, when are they going to break
-What about the phenomenon called “buffeting” or vibration, was there any?
No, I did not encounter it even in the 850kmh speed.”
-Kyösti Karhila, Finnish fighter ace. 32 victories
Manual limits always have safety margins to account for variance in production quality of various parts.
I add some too, it’s interesting:
Clarence “Bud” with Joseph P. Hamelin. “To Fly and Fight, Memoirs of a Triple Ace”
…Undecided, I peel off and begin chasing him down. Did I squander a chance here? Have I let him escape? He is diving hard enough to be shedding his wings, harder than anyone designed those airplanes to dive, 500 miles an hour and more, and if 109s will stall sooner than Mustangs going straight up, now I am worrying that maybe their wings stay on longer. At 25,000 feet I begin to grow nervous. I pull back on the throttle, ease out of the dive, and watch him go down. I have no more stomach for this kind of thing, not right now, not with this guy. Enough. Let him go and to hell with him.
P-51 Pilot Training Manual:
According to this, he overspeeded his Mustang by 100-150 MPH at least.
Another example:
Thomas L. Hayes encounter report for 28 May 1944
…Taking up pursuit again I was able to get on one of the Me-109’s which now began to dive. I fired three short bursts. After the first burst he skidded, I suppose to look back. I fired again seeing debris and canopy come off. Just as the third burst was fired it looked like the pilot started out, however at that instant strikes were noticed on and around what looked like the pilot. Then the ship actually disintegrated. I went out of control indicating 500 mph. at 20,000 ft. and so did my wing man. I picked up my element leader, Lt. Howell, quickly and covered him as he nailed a Me-109 with the pilot parachuting. We climbed back to the bombers from 12,000 ft. and continued the escort.
He reported 500 mph IAS at 20.000 feet, that is 100 mph more then “never exceed speed” at that altitude.
The maximum speed not to be Exceeded is a speed wich can damage the airplane, might not in the way ripping the wings off but also internal damage or shortening of the aircraft’s lifespan a lot, he might not break the plane at the time but as with MIG-25, it can reach MACH 3, but will never fly again since it damaged itself by going that fast, so as he might had done. In the end it was his stupidity and he didnt act as he should have.
Also this all time I am talking about todays aircrafts. when I meet bf-109 with opend cockpit, ok I can take that, but a mig 23? that is too much. and the worst is in toptier.
In WW2 I beleve there were safty deviations, since thay needed everyone and not everone can fly as thay should, that is a hole different story. but I should have sayed that.
Today there are no safety margins, those limits are made by people who knows the best and the people who flyes those planes are traied and educated to fly how thay should.
-You don’t because 109s can’t open their cockpits unless you play reserve tier
Safety margins are still very much alive today. Plenty of pilots have exceeded their planes’ load factor limits and still landed safely. If anything there would be lower safety margins during wartime.
Read the first sentence of my last reply.
No, anyone could become pilot, because thay needed them, so to make shure thay dont kill themselfs or destroy thayer planes the first flight, thay had put there those safety margins, but today the pilots are chosen wisely and are much batter traind then back in WW2.