It is a suggestion on what to do, 450km/h is enought to desroy the view, but there is no sorce for that. If someone think its too much it doesnt have to be there.
I just inmagine what it feels like to be in a 450km/h wind.
Ah, so you have no source. Great.
Sorce, ok, here is one, it shows the effect of 30m/s wind on human body. Just so everyone know 450km/h is about 125 m/s and 300km/h is 84m/s.
On this study thay came to the end that wind about 30m/s is enought to lay down a normaly hight man.
News paper where it was publisted
u can find something related to aviation
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By the study’s own description:
“For this study, we considered a human body with a height of 172cm. The investigation takes into account two different positions against the wind, frontal and lateral position traversed by wind speeds levels of 20m/s, 30m/s, and 40 m/s.”
These forces are experienced by someone NOT IN A COCKPIT, out in the open standing up. This is not related to the current topic at all.
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This is ment to show the force of the wind that can nock you to the grownd.
But you needed it, when you didnt beleve me that wind cant make you weep. So i gave you this, if only 30 m/s can nock you to the ground 125 m/s can shake your head and even tear the goggles of your head.
I dont know what are you fighting for, we both dont want players to fly with opend cockpits with the planes that are unflyabe with opend cockpit, so i gave more than enought evidence and solutions to finally getting rid of those players.
If you’re standing up, out in the open, yes! However, you may have noticed that aircraft cockpits do not have your pilot standing up out in the open:
So that study’s findings are completely void for this topic.
Again, in an aircraft cockpit you have the front windshield - present on almost every plane that is not an F-16 - deflecting air AWAY from your face:
Pilots are also wearing goggles, helmets, and other protective gear.
You gave no evidence. You found a study about strong wind effects on a person standing in the open. They weren’t strapped to a chair and they certainly weren’t in a plane.
The difference is that I want this to be close to realistic instead of having pilots black out at speeds well exceeded by aircraft that did not have enclosed canopies, and I’m not pointing to UNRELATED studies and pretending they’re applicable here.
I won’t argue further with you until you provide credible sources and/or stop writing in broken english.
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However you might have noticed that the in cockpit while flying at 450km/h is 4 times stronger.
Well someone can look at thinks and take some nolige and someone can just hate it becouse it shows the truth
Yes thay do, but airflow wount just go away it will try to get as close to the plane asi it can so it just will sink inside the cockpit and than there will be wind.
Yes but non of this protects you agains the wind presure.
Well, by you closest to the realistic would be letting all the planes throw out the canopies becouse thay are by you useless.
Well bleckout might not be the best punishmant, but atleas I sayed somethink and didnt hate everyone that tryes to give the solution.
Studies are just to make the picture about possible situation.
There was one test of flying with opend cockpit at hight speed and the resolts are classified. So we need to build the picture.
And here is the point, broken english, I can also read someons suggestion and hate it jus because I wanna to, but makeing somethink and thinking about it, not all the people can do that.
thats why we need data and source related to aircraft closest thing semi related is a cabrio car in wind tunnel vid
i hope u read props related study i posted earlier?
but u lack arguments and so called ‘primary sources’ that might be accepted by wt devs
fell free to pm me exact name of test results report if it was done quite long time ago could dig around and send foia request if it was USA test
related studies
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Modern jets also designed and tested not to kill pilot and crash in case of canopy malfunction, destruction, disappearance.
We had this convo before and i found info about canopy disintegration on a MiG-31 in high altitude mach2 flight and it’s successful return to base without pilot injuries.
Meanwhile there are negative effects on pilot, so there should be something in game that will disturb player that tries to fly without canopy at high speeds and altitude.
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What is my solution:
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2007/august/01/north-american-aviation-p-51d-mustang
The original P-51D Mustang flight manual, AN 01-60JE-1, states that the maximum recommended flight speed with the canopy open is 130 knots (approx. 240 km/h). Exceeding this speed can result in damage to the canopy or its detachment.
On this page you can read about the experience of an A-10 and RAF Typhoon pilot. Both aircraft lost their cockpit canopy and it says:
Major Brett DeVries of the U.S. Air Force, whose A-10 Thunderbolt II shed its canopy following a gun malfunction in 2017, said that the strength of the air rushing past was strong enough to pin his head back against the headrest – as if he had been punched. He chose to lower his seat as far as it would go in an attempt to mitigate the issue.
So here you see that the airflow also affects the pilot physically.
Here is written about the strength of the wind too
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/safety-advisory-notice/ao-2014-164-san-012
Here it is written about the crash of an RV-6A aircraft in which the cockpit opened during flight and the wind flow changed the aerodynamics of the aircraft so that the aircraft was not controllable and the aircraft crashed. From which it follows that if an aircraft opens the cockpit in flight, and is not adapted to fly with an open cockpit, it can become uncontrollable.
The best example to show that even the slightest change to an aircraft will cause a big change in the aerodynamic properties of the aircraft, than on gliders, where this issue is very widely addressed. On this page you will learn what the effect of the gap between the cabin canopy and the fuselage is. 1mm is a gap at which there is an immeasurable violation of the aerodynamics of the aircraft. 3mm and more is the limit when there is a significant change in the flight properties of the aircraft, which mainly increase resistance.
The conclusion from this source is that opening the cabin canopy will increase the drag many times over.
This page is the story of a person whose cockpit opened during flight and was exposed to the full force of the wind, the plane did not have a front shield so the wind force was at full force.
Aircraft:Extra 330LX
Cruise Speed: Approximately 158 knots (about 182 mph or 293 km/h)
The result, as commented on by the person in the incident, is: “The flight was a distressing experience, filled with noise, breathing difficulties, and impaired visibility. It took me nearly 28 hours to fully recover my vision."
So my conclusion is: the pilot when flying with an open cockpit is affected by pressure, temperature, noise, wind gusts and interference with the controls. I will leave the specific speeds and influencing the player in the game to the developers, but a simple list of effects: vision shaking, blurred vision, reduced controllability or interference with the controls and when flying at high altitude or climbing quickly, black out due to a sharp change in pressure and of course increased air resistance
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Car manufacturers will not recommend you to drive with open doors, because it can cause damage and can be dangerous to passengers and other drivers on road.
But, who cares about it, if you race your car in rally or in destruction derby?
Spoiler
A uniquel case. The A-10 cockpit and the chair are located as high as possible for a better review of the ground targets. Also said it could lower his seat.
Canopy is the huge part of that light aircraft that can affect aerodynamics heavily. Also no separate frontal windshield section.
Our planes in game made in another way a little bit…
Again! Such plane has huge canopy and pilot sits very high for better view for aerobatics needs and plane HAS NO FIXED WINDSHIELD.
Stop using this case! We discussed it earlier! Show me another military plane from game without frontal windshield section of the cockpit!
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Cars doesnt go above MACH, just a small detail you might have missed.
Its true, there is also typhoon where pilot say the same. There is also to minimalize the force not to feel nothing.
F-16?
This was an extrem, there is also section about gliders where you can find how even small hole around the cabine can make air resistence bigger.
And from the arguments you had in the past, couldnt that work as a wind shield?
I showed what happend when airplane lost its cabine and showed many effects that can be applyed in the game. Now its time to decide wich effect should be applayed in warthunder.
Exactly. Those affects would happen on an F-16, but I highly doubt it would be the case on almost any other WWII plane. Open cockpit aircraft were incredibly common before WWII, and many weren’t slow either.
My opinion is that nothing needs to be changed at all. Gaijin already made them impossible to use for hearing other planes, and they are much more restricting in when you can open them now.
And the cockpit view in WT is stupidly low too, but Gaijin doesn’t think it’s a bug.
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Playing Il-2: GB recently,
I can’t believe how unrealistic IL-2 is to let the I-16 fly with cockpit open in a high-speed dogfight!
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P-51 doesn’t too.
This is a racing plane form 1930s with OPEN cockpit without canopy, that could go 700+ kmh (comparable to P-51):
Has large dashboard section with HUD glass that protects pilot from airflow
I’m 100% sure, General Dynamics made all tests to proove pilot safety when canopy fails.
Again, we already discussed it and there was and accident, when japanese F-16 lost it’s canopy during sortie and successfully made a landing at nearest base.
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Jets could go from surface to stratosphere in several minutes since 1950s, so they used and use pressurised cockpits.
A pilot will experience significant inconveniences from such rapid changes in the surrounding pressure and temperature if there’s no canopy…
We need some handicaps for the pilot’s characteristics.
We all can agree that in flight with opend cockpit, pilot feels an disconfort, especiali in hight speeds.
He did, but had to slow down a lot, lose altitude and fly really slow. And here might be the finall question, why did he had to slow down? I wount beleve that while flight without the cockpit closed, you dont feel any effect of the speed.
I read about it and pulled out that conclusion, showed possible solutions. Its time to decise wich effect should be aplyed in warthunder.
In the end why dont punish those players that fly at MACH with opend cockpit, we arent those who fly with cockpits opend.
So are we gonna make pilots have a stroke after pulling 12G and letting go of the stick too?
I still read this topic from time to time, with incredulous bemusement.
The examples of people flying with open cockpit either by intent, design or by accident are intersting of course, but quite beside the point, the point being that no (fighter jet) pilot would ever even consider actually opening the canopy in flight intentionally.
People doing just that in the game are doing so to gain an unfair and unrealistic advantage, and - at least in my view - this should not be allowed or have ingame repercussions (damage, noise,…) that negate those unrealistic advantages.
As to the by now many examples, what is still missing is an example of a fighter jet pilot opening the canopy intentionally in flight to “see better” or “hear better”.
You obviously won’t find one.
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