and the leopard and abrams has better optics, gun handling, smoke, reverse speed, thermals and reload… -2 points for you
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KVT has superior reload, mobility, gun handling, optics, acceleration, speed, thermals and survivability. The “weakness” is it has to aim slightly more carefully, which it aims faster due to the gun handling. See how the weakness is compensated easily by the strengths. Simply use your speed to reach a position where you can compensate for your weaker shell, that’s what compensating looks like.
292 having to wait ages before you can aim at a vehicle because the gun handling is terrible isn’t something you can compensate for. No amount of skills makes the gun elevate faster. No amount of skills makes the gun depress further.
Then you get oneshot because there’s a round still in the breach and Abrams doesn’t care about ammo rack burning. Congratulations, you gambled on a oneshot and failed.
Being able to gamble more times, faster and so on is better. Reload is golden and small differences in reload are huge.
Leclerc is massively better than T-80BVM simply because the reload is .5 seconds better. If you want to complain about Leclerc armour then I suggest you “play around it” which means it doesn’t matter even slightly.
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No point of arguing further with both of you. With your logic we can give every tank 700mm pen shell and it would be “balanced”. Give 2A4 DM33 and M833 for Abrams, it would be fair and balanced. Then not cry about your Turms being OHK through UFP like 292 will do to many tanks considered “well armoured”. Bye
Actually happens anyway. TURMS is bad.
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It makes no difference if the enemy sees and shoots you first.
You were the one preaching that only the first shot matters in an engagement, why backtrack and claim that the vehicles with an upper hand in that department are suddenly worse?
It doesn’t matter what it can “shit on”, it’s a horrible tank overall. The Swedish tūb can 1 shot any 11.7 tank… Does it deserve 11.0?
Well, it doesn’t have thermals… But that’s only a minor downside to being able to 1 shot top tier tanks.
Well, it has quite bad mobility compared to its peers… But that’s only a minor downside to being able to 1 shot top tier tanks.
Well, it has a 20 second reload, but that’s only a minor downside to being able to 1 shot top tier tanks.
Well, it doesn’t have thermals, but that’s only a minor downside to being able to 1 shot top tier tanks.
Well, it doesn’t have smoke grenades, but that’s only a minor downside to being able to 1 shot top tier tanks.
Spj fm-43/44 12.7 now gaijin!!1!
Smoke is one of the most important things in top tier gameplay.
It absolutely is a drawback? Have you not seen the Abrams? The Leclerc? The Type-10?
Even more reason for the BT-5 to be 11.0!
So it has the bare minimum for its BR. Laser rangefinders are common even at 7.0-8.0, let alone 10.0. The optics are borderline decent, and again, it lacks thermals.
The downsides it receives does not constitute what it gets, hence its low BR.
And this is still a T-80? What’s your point?
Now imagine not a single 292 seeing you from your position, and as you fire twice for every shot they fire, you can easily kill multiple.
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And both the Leopard and Abrams can pen the '292s turret?
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if you remove everyting else from those tanks go ahead, penetration is not the only factor in game…
Btw a 120mm dm13 or the 105 dm 33 can OHK an turms trough the upper front…
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Shturm-S at 8.7…
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This logic isn’t quite right buddy.
2A4 has better mobility, gun handling, gun depression, reload and only lacks in thermals. If it receives DM33, both 2A4 and TURMS could basically lolpen each other, thus negating any armor values.
So you get that TURMS would trade everything for thermals, which isn’t a fair trade if you ask me.
On the other hand, 292 is getting a better shell because it lacks in many other fields, which can’t be said for 2A4. You need to learn the difference.
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Very low damage for such a projectile. Literally worse than 3bm42.
I compared the game length of 152 projectile and the current 125, so the new projectile for some reason is very short (you can see on the penetration camera).
It should be at least the same length as 3bm60
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Turms can face 9.0 in full down tier, best round Dm23 with 337 point blank.
Leo2 in dull down tier faces mostly DM33, 408mm of pen almost identical to it’s own DM23.
by your own statement Turms can lol pen Leo 2 but isn’t allowed to do the same.
I’ve been playing during last event and the Horde of Leo 123 and Turms is INSANE, from my experience Leo’s are some what easier to take out then TURMS
Even with your specified ideal conditions (500 is a good test distance)
DM 23 completely fails
DM33 a round that is usually an entire BR above this vehicle is also not reliable. It’s an RNG pen even at 0m, and as said previously, it struggles to reliably pen with a small amount of angling or range
As far as I’m aware nothing in my statement was at all incorrect, this vehicles armor is fine, good even for 10.0.
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Shh, don’t show them weakspots ;)
Damn how bad you cannot center mass t80 from 500 meters away and you have to aim
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Yes, I never said it should be “center massable” merely that you can’t call this thing “no armor” which is patently ridiculous
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How does it having weak-spots detract from my overall point? All tanks have weak-spots, all the way to top tier. Most top tier tanks can technically be killed by 5.7 tanks frontally. It does not mean they can’t have good armor.
russian mbt’s all have the same armor weakspots from 9.3 all the way to 11.7, people complaining about russian vehicles armor when they have had (I assume) practice firing at them from the front since 9.3 all the way to their top tier mbts I find it funny that they can’t just shoot the same spot again for a new russian mbt.
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oh for sure, the average player can’t shoot for toffee, my only point was this vehicle has armor, and pretty good armor at that. It’s comparable to the pretty good at 10.0 T72B89 (arguably better against kenetic rounds as less of the turret is easily pennable, tho far worse against chemical)
T72B 1989 has much better armor than the object 292, for one it has ERA, contact 5, not 1, meaning that it can deflect kinetic rounds as well as just having better composite than the 292 to begin with. and the turret of the 292 is weaker, m774 can pen it’s turret cheeks iirc (might be wrong on that, but any stronger shells definitely can pen it’s turret cheek). I’d say it has passable armor but not good armor, it’s trolley enough that every once in a while you can bounce rounds and get lucky, but it basically comes down to being lucky, any player with a real hand for their aiming controls can bypass said ‘armor’ with a mere flick of their arm to a different spot.
There is a big weak spot that most of the people kind of ignore and that’s a propellant charges in the back of the turret so when you manage to penetrate the turret you’re going to blow up
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