okay is a very descriptive response my friend, if you aren’t open to discussions please do not discuss. and still you shot above the UFP, I agree I was not descriptive enough, and either way that guy was down 2 crew anyway considering you only killed gunner driver so a one shot resulting from a pen at that state should be common.
Where I shot is the “ufp” or upper frontal plate. Below that is the glacis plate, if he had 4 crew, he would’ve still died because they’re all lined up like in a conga line apart from the loader.
That place cannot ricochet APFSDS (btw, the same plate on the Leopard 2A5 does, so you trade upper plate protection of the 2A5 for the glacis protection of the 2A7V).
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the upper hull isnt off limits, the 2A7V’s upper hull is like the PSO’s hull, not like the strv122’s, its “technically” less protected than the 2A5’s upper hull, this bug has already been reported to gaijin and acknowledged. Theres some weirdo spots where you might not pen (the very thin stripes of red in the above picture) but thats mostly because of issues with volumetric. The 2A7V’s frontal protection is still lower than that of stuff like the T-72B3, T-80BVM, and T-90M.
the actual difference in penetration between M829A2/DM53 and 3BM60 is not actually significant enough for it to matter in-game. Between ~550-670mm of pen, there’s little difference in-game (670 because the 2A7V hull beak can also be penned above around ~660mm of pen).
Russian MBT’s havent had to aim carefully for the last 4-5 years lmao. The only tank that was “well armored” compared to russian tanks was the strv122, that aside, even 3BM42 remained passable until relatively recently with the proliferation of 550mm+ rounds.
As long as a bug remains unfixed, its a feature, particularly when any “bug report” gets passed to devs as a “suggestion”, which is the case with all issues with armor of the 2A7V. Also, ive never ever seen the UFP ERA on russian MBT’s not work, nor have i ever heard of this (quite frankly ludicrous) claim before. ERA is much more likely to actually result in rounds being eaten by volumetric shenanigans than anything else in-game.
the Leo 2’s all have a conga line of crew members on the right side of the vehicle (driver/gunner/commander). Because of this, the Leo 2’s one shot area is about the same size, if not bigger than that of the russian T-series. Theres also the fact that the leo 2’s mantlet is one of the rare pieces of armor in-game that creates EXTRA spall, making mantlet shots unusually devastating.
ALSO, talking about survivability is moving the goalpost. Russian MBT’s are more protected, and id argue that if someone actually tested it, western MBT’s frontal 1 shot area is likely around the same size as the russian MBT’s weakspots. The difference is in the fact that if someones wiffs a shot on a russian MBT, theyre likely to do literally no damage. If a russian wiffs a shot on a western tank, theyre still likely to pen, but only to get a mobility kill.
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I was using incorrect grammar in my previous posts, thank you for correcting me, semantics is a discussion so I appreciate the openings, better than okay at least.
and if he had full crew he might not have died, though I agree them being in a line does equal a high probability of him dying, but now try the lower plate, you get driver and gunner again, probably engine too but does he die in that shot? not likely, I know sometimes shooting lower plates of russian tanks doesn’t equal to them dying instantly but we all know they should.
anyway back to those vehicles, I personally prefer the better glacis protection than ufp protection since it usually is easier to use as dynamic armor, or armor that gets better the more you wiggle around.
understandable, I have made this ludicrous claim off of something that happened to me only twice, twice more than it should have happened but still a low number not near common, apologies. and that’s valid logic on the rest of it I guess we are looking at it slightly differently, I won’t be able to reply to the rest of your post (because I have to go to work soon lmfao) though having read through it I agree with majority of it.
just in my experience german mbt’s and not as much but still american mbt’s have higher potential for better games than russian vehicles, I believe all of my T8 german mbt’s have high kdr’s from relatively relaxed and sometimes even braindead games where russian tanks (for me) are a lot harder to have fun with and just do well, skill issue me all you want german tanks are easy and relaxing whilst russian ones are good but I wouldn’t say broken like most of the community seems to be fixated on, I agree ammo just disappearing when you shoot it is annoying however for me it’s rarely gotten me killed because of it.
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germany suffers eh my friend?
Sigh.
Nor Russian 10.0 BR to a lvl to add undertiered vehicle with a railgun 💀
tiring isn’t it?
yeah, I believe it’ll act more as a test bed for adding higher powered shells as well as larger diameter guns, like leclerc 140mm, or cattb. possibly even dm73 for germany or m829a3 for america, from what I’ve heard if dm73 gets added for 2a7v it should have around 730-740mm flat point blank pen in war thunder.
Tanks aren’t BR placed with full downtiers in mind.
What would TURMS have left going on for it if 2A4 can simply lolpen it ?
At that point TURMS would have better thermals and that’s about it, which surely isn’t good for balance.
Often times vehicles get good rounds in order to balance out their shortcomings elsewhere.
TURMS is basically a vehicle with 9.0 mobility, gun handling, etc. and is fighting things that have top tier worthy stats in those areas.
99% sure DM73 uses the same penetrator as DM53, so its addition will mostly be irrelevant. M829A3 is gonna get modelled like trash as well, since gaijin themselves said it literally wont change anything:
Barring the 140mm vehicles, I dont think gaijin will ever give better shells to NATO, because Russia has no capability increases left barring soviet prototypes and the armata (which is so bad irl soldiers have refused to even use them in ukraine despite being offered to do so iir) and is otherwise just a pure paper machine. This means Russia literally has nothing left to give for “top tier” vehicles, only sidegrades. Adding NATO shells that can defeat current russian armor or modelling NATO tanks accurately are therefore non-starters because gaijin refuses to model things accurately and then give them appropriate BR’s, instead opting for the increasingly fantasy modeling decisions that keep russia as competitive as possible.
This is also likely why anti-ERA tips (like on DM53 or other modern western rounds), advanced composite armors, and regenerative steering arent being implemented either; Russia doesnt have anything new to compete in these regards, or literally doesnt use any of these features, so modelling them would just push Russia to a bigger disadvantage.
Call it what you want, but the game cant move forwards as long as gaijin tries to artificially keep russia in contention for a top nation in-game. It simply doesnt have the tech irl.
gen 3 thermals for commander and gunner? K1 sideskirts? The turms is incredibly strong for a 10.0 tank and could easily go to 10.3/10.7 with the T-90A going to 11.3. The fact Russian players are awful at the game through years of blatant handholding is not an argument for a tank being bad.
Also, this is a particularly bad argument in the current threads context, seeing as russia is literally getting a tank that can pen ANYWHERE on the 2A4 frontally, out to beyond 2km, while the TURMS will never face something like that, not even in an uptier, since its turret will still have some decent armor
Holy Jesus, last time i checked here there were only 7 comments, now its 215, truly one of the forum moments
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I already stated the thermals and K-1 won’t help much to stop KE rounds.
Putting TURMS a single BR step below M1A1, just lmao.
This is even funnier.
T-90A would have nothing else than a better UFP going for it when compared to AIM, but somehow they deserve to be at the same BR.
Strong words coming from someone that can’t perform better in his USSR vehicles despite all that handholding and bias. Guess you’re the part of that awful playerbase.
Just because you can penetrate something somewhere doesn’t mean you should shoot there. Shooting at one side of the turret just to kill his singular crew member is literally the worst thing to do, since he can then pop out and shoot you in the face as well. There’s a reason people go for barrels if they aren’t sure they can OHK something.
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It’s not like putting Turns at 10.7 is issue, issue is we need more decompression of top tier and tanks that deserve it.
But I definitely can, and on every russian tank I have positive KD to begin with, 11.7 excluded because I am not there yet. And o can definitely say, that there are tanks that are just busted, T-80U f.e is like a gokart. Nic experience after mountain of frustration behind M1A2 SEP grind
yeah im admittedly not the greatest ground player, doesnt change the fact that russian players are awful, just like premium players also tend to be awful
youd take out the loader and ammo, or the gunner and commander, not even considering you might nuke the breach and turret ring…
As for hull shots, with the amount of spall its producing atm, pretty unlikely you wont be 1-shotting there either.
It also completely ignores the point, AGAIN, because you seem to struggle with reading comprehension. You seem to have an issue with russian tanks being able to be penetrated anywhere, but have no issues with other nations tanks being able to be penetrated anywhere. Pretty sure thats called being a hypocrite?
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Well written, then he is gonna say “he not fast, he can’t see, tank without gun handling” when reality is: as fast as T-80, with same optics but without thermals( when T-80B and U also shouldn’t have one but this is other story), and gun handling wise is the same as T-80B/T-90A. Definitely not worse in this regard than counterparts on this BR
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