+1 germany
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-1, I don’t see the point in adding a vehicle which was only tested for a few days (as no other sources corroborate it supposedly being tested in 1984).
Germany is already much better off than a lot of other nations at top tier, as they already have the Fulcrum and can have the F-4 ICE added as well. This particular tree also receives much more preferential treatment (Hunter Mk.58 comes to mind) when compared to other tech trees, who usually have it worse off each update.
Apart from this I am not a big fan of evaluated equipment either unless there is strong evidence to back up its addition to the tech tree (a couple of test flights does not count imo), as doing so simply opens up too many rabbit holes, like with the F-16AJ. Such a situation could have easily been avoided, and should be avoided in the future.
Finally I just really don’t see the need for it in the German tech tree, it’s already quite strong at top tier as it stands, and will only get stronger with the addition of more Phantom, Tornado, Typhoon and MiG-29 variants
In summary this is simply a vehicle which shouldn’t be added to the German tree.
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Of course, it’s your opinion and I respect it, but most agree that the future of the German air tree is not very good. The Phantom was a capable jet in its day, but the meta favours jets that are good in dog fighting and has for some time now (see: F-16AJ, F-16C, Gripen) and I think the effectiveness of AMRAAMs is overstated. The Tornado only has one more meaningful improved version that could come (Tornado IDS SLE) which would probably be around 11.7, but still not competitive in a game where the Pantsir exists. The Typhoon is potentially years away, and as for the MiG-29, there are no more variants for Germany, the MiG-29G is the last one.
Most nations Don’t have to deal with this lack of aircraft. For the US and Russia, and China, it goes without saying that they will have no lack of aircraft for the future. For Sweden, Britain, and Italy there are not only their domestically operated aircraft but also the aircraft of their sub-trees, Finland, South Africa, and Hungary respectively. In comparison, Germany comes up short. The solution is to either provide Germany with a sub-tree, or include aircraft that were evaluated, which is what I’m suggesting here.
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F-20 literally doesn’t fill any gap in the German tech tree, it wouldn’t have AIM-120s or AIM-9L even in the US tree, therefore it would have to be judged mostly by its flight performance, which would put it at 11.7 maximum (as the F-16A is 12.0 and it should be better in every way), and 11.7 means an uptier to 12.3, where the Mig-29 and Mig-29G are already located, also being better than the F-20A in most ways. Below 11.7, you have the Mig-23MLA, one of the best 11.3 vehicles, with very good dogfight characteristics.
There is not a single BR that the F-20 would fill for Germany, and that is reason alone why it shouldn’t be in that tree, let alone it not having anything to do with Germany, test vehicles are an actual trash argument for implementation.
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Seeing as the only variant of the F-20 Germany tested was the very first prototype (originally designated as F-5G-1), and never had any of the advanced avionics (no APG-67 radar), you’d basically be looking at a better F-5E (only better engine and 6x 9Js). I’m gonna be honest: you want an F-5 in the German TT? Add a Swiss air sub tree, because then you can get a Swiss F-5E
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+1
It was the version test flown by WTD61 but it would have been evaluated on the assumption that it would be equipped with the AN/APG-67 and other avionics intended for the F-20.
Yes, but the prototype they evaluated wasn’t capable of equipping any of that (the second and third prototypes had a slightly re-designed nose to account for the slightly larger radar)
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Yes, but as I discussed earlier in the thread, there is more to evaluation than just test flights. The F-16 for instance was never even test flown by Japan.
Even then, the F-20 still doesn’t exactly make sense. I’ve seen other folks above state that there really isn’t a place for it or gap that needs to be filled (unlike what happened with the AJ).
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Personally, I’m of the opposite opinion. The F-20 makes sense for Germany because besides the US, Germany is the only other in-game nation to evaluate it. Germany and China are also the only nations without a multi-role fighter and well, there aren’t many option for Germany beyond a Tranche 2 Eurofighter.
At the end of the day it isn’t up to me, you or them, it’s up to Gaijin. This is only a suggestion.
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in my own opinion, i don’t understand the reasons behind not giving a plane due to said plane not being able to “fill a gap.” the evaluation itself is more than enough to be under scrutiny, but if we just bar nations from getting planes due to a BR overlap, i think we’re getting into the weeds.
the bottom line for me is that there are vehicles in this game that have been added with less legitimacy, so it’s a possibility for Gaijin to give more life to the German tech tree in the short term until we possibly start getting into the Typhoons. top tier crazy missile loadout or not, i just wanna grind my favorite tree.
The actual distinction to be made here is that (regardless of how Gaijin implemented it in game) the F-16AJ was a unique modification only offered to Japan. The whole reason Japan was unable to test fly it was because one of the 2 modified airframes had issues. This is just an F-20A that would be functionally identical to a US version. Much more was done with the F-16AJ to make it a serious sales proposal than just slapping a German flag on the plane.
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This modification did not exist; the Japanese were shown a regular test F-16, without modifications that were in the brochure, there is nothing unique here, on the contrary, there are more contradictions
Correct, Japanese pilots observed some YF-16 flights. Gaijin gave Japan a standard blk 10 F-16.
This is a suggestion for F-20 Tigershark. Go somewhere else if you people want to have schizoid discussion about F-16AJ for the hundredth time.
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The british and the canadians also evaluated it, the second protoype was lost duringtesting in canada XD
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+1 definitely needed for German tree
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the question tho is what would sit right with you?
Clearly not the F-20 that was tested in the US
so… what about the F/A-18B tested in 1982 at the WTD61 in Manching Germany?
or the F-15B also tested in 1982 at the WTD61 in Manching Germany?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/542117958684639244/1123310977040003324/F15.png
gaijin (smin) repeatedly stated that the EF2000 is '‘too advanced’'to be added…
so what else? the ICE? that thing will be dead on arrival. Gen 3 airframes are just food these days in the current 16v16 air rb…
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Probably something like the Swiss F-18, they got the Swiss Hunter (regardless of my opinion on that), and given the fact that the Alphajet exists and could’ve filled that gap, it stands to reason it was to open the tree up for future Swiss additions to fill that gap. Of which the Swiss F-18 makes the most possible sense.
Britain already suffered out with Gen 3 airframes at top tier for a year so it’s not unheard of that Germany would receive the F-4F ICE as its the only aircraft they actually used. However as Switzerland has been briefly integrated into the German tree, there are now non-domestic options.