Hi everyone, I’m posting this here now because it wasn’t supposed to be in General Discussions and didn’t know that sorry.
I am writing this to discuss the current state of top-tier Surface-to-Air Missiles (SAMs) following the Ninth Wave update. I play Russia, Germany, and Japan at Top Tier, so I am looking at this from a multi-nation perspective. I have used an AI to help structure my thoughts and ensure this post is clear and easy to read, as English is not my first language.
There is a noticeable inconsistency in how technical data is applied. The new Pantsir SM-SV and the Kh-38MT have been implemented with their absolute peak advertised performance. It is important to note that the Kh-38MT is largely an export-oriented (and Su-57 Hangar Queen) variant only seen in promotional material and weapon expos. Why is this weapon allowed to perform at its maximum theoretical potential while Western and Japanese systems are held back?
IRIS-T SLM: Despite documented 40 km range capabilities, the in-game version loses almost all kinetic energy after 20 km. If the Kh-38MT gets its full export-spec performance, the IRIS-T should as well.
The Interception Issue: Even with its advanced laser proximity fuse, the IRIS-T often ghosts through high-speed munitions like the Kh-38MT.
Japan’s Air Defense Crisis
The situation for Japan has become particularly frustrating in this update.
Tan-SAM Kai (Type 81C): The loss of the Bulldog mode (fire-on-visual/Mad-dog) has severely crippled its tactical flexibility. It was the only way to react to sudden threats.
Type 03 (Chū-SAM): While it was a highly anticipated addition, its current implementation feels clunky and unnecessary given its poor performance against the current Kh-38MT meta. It lacks the reliability seen in the Pantsir’s tracking logic.
Data Consistency
If the Ninth Wave update allows the Pantsir and Kh-38MT to operate at their maximum theoretical export/brochure specs, the same courtesy should be extended to:
IRIS-T SLM: Restore its 40 km kinetic range and fix the laser fuse logic.
IRIS-T SLM and others IIR SAM´s: Add missing LDIRCCM counters.
Tan-SAM Kai: Restore the Bulldog mode capability.
I am not asking to nerf Russia. I enjoy playing this nation, but as I play, I notice how strong it is. This is not healthy for the game. Instead, I am looking for a standardization of data quality across all top-tier nations.
Do you think SAM performance should be based on manufacturer specs for ALL nations equally?
Yes, if the Pantsir gets its 40km range, the IRIS-T should too.
No, I prefer the current “balancing” even if it’s unrealistic.
I don’t play Top Tier / See Results.
0voters
How should Gaijin fix the Japanese SAM gap?
Bring back the Tan-SAM Kai “Mad-Dog mode” and fix the Type 81C.
Add the Type 11 (Tan-SAM Kai II) with its real specs.
Buff the Type 03’s interception logic and mobility. (Semirealistic)
0voters
How do you feel about the current Top Tier SAM balance after the Ninth Wave update?
It is balanced, every nation has its strengths.
It is slightly skewed towards Russia, but manageable.
It is heavily biased, Western/Japanese SAMs need urgent buffs.
I stopped playing SAMs because of the Kh-38MT meta.
0voters
If there are any incorrect facts in this post, please tell me. This is just based on what I have read in bug reports and Forum Posts.
DISCLAIMER
I have deliberately not mentioned the Mi-28NM in this post, as its current state and its interaction with LDIRCM and LMUR missiles represent an even larger and more severe problem for the game’s balance that deserves its own dedicated discussion.
1- Brochures are not treated differently based on nation.
2- “Bulldog mode” or more accurately boresight mode for missiles isn’t implemented [fully? at all?] for ARH missiles in general at this time.
I didn’t see it functioning [when it was available?], so I am unaware of it ever working on ARH missiles at the time of this post and would like to be made aware.
Considering we don’t have boresight mode for relevant notable ARH missiles yet, I doubt the feature was complete enough… which saddens me.
This leaves only the IR missiles. Which I see no evidence of IR missiles not able to fire on their own at this time.
So patience is required for the feature to be implemented for relevant ARH missiles, and implemented correctly.
There are many things wrong with many vehicles.
There are many things wrong with Tan-SAM Kai.
Managing frustration while the devs work is something I do.
3- I’m not seeing a video showcasing IRIS-T SL’s current capabilities in-game to substantiate those claims.
I am not having a take on this, because I require evidence of any kind in order to have takes in general.
Edit changed some wording to make things easier to understand.
Added a take in a 4th block of point 2.
The video showcases issues with the setup, and I am curious if there were even more egregious bugs related to it.
It’s common for Gaijin to disable bugged features if it’s not absolutely necessary for the functionality of a system, then release the feature again once fixed.
There are a lot of missiles that have such a feature IRL that don’t in-game because Gaijin doesn’t have the code ready.
Western? The SD10A was literally advertised to be able to go faster than Mach 5 while in game it can’t even go past Mach 4, it’s not a “Western” nerf it’s literally anything that isn’t Russian lmao
Yes, they are. For example, the Pantsir-SM-SV is said to have a range of 40 km. Why doesn’t it get the “interception range” treatment - where you shoot at 40 km but hit at maybe 30 km? Why is that only the case for Western SAMs?
It was in-game, even in the dev blog ifircc. And it is MAD-DOG mode, my apologies.
I haven’t seen a video of the new Kh-38MT hitting 70 km shots; I haven’t seen a video of an LMUR having a 15 km range, I have not seen a video of the new Pantsir-SM-SV hitting at those 40 km, I have not seen any BMPT used in combat, and I have not seen Russian LDIRCM working. What’s your point here?
Yeah fair it is what it is, Russians get to have literally fake missiles, it’s been like this for years anyway. At this point it wouldn’t surprise me if they magically just “found” information on R-27EA. https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/PjoAcDsvoClZ
Bug report got “accepted” but I somehow doubt anything meaningful will come out of it
Yes, another user was able to show this.
There’s a reason I asked, because I needed to see it.
I didn’t read the dev blog, and it was removed before I ever would’ve known about it.
I hope Gaijin gets the feature functioning without the rather obvious bugs it had.
1- The standard Pantsir missile has an effective range of 16km against jets despite its statcard range stating 20km and 22.
I can’t speak for the new missile cause I never tested that, either against or using. I can’t speak on matters which knowledge is withheld or otherwise not present.
3- I don’t know if IRIS-T SL cannot reach even 30km target. That’s why I’m asking.
PL-12A you mean.
And a maximum speed =/= guaranteed to reach speed.
Besides, it is reaching mach 4.8 according to Statshark’s missile tool: Altitude 14,000 meters, 2200kph launch speed.
R-27ER doesn’t even reach its top speed in-game, and doesn’t get anywhere near it in War Thunder’s standard matches and speeds.
What bugs do you mean? I only knew of one that was fixed. It was just that only one vehicle had Mad-Dog mode (the one you got into after the radar went down).
The video Devil06 posted showed obvious locking issues:
The fact LOAL isn’t in-game yet also means it couldn’t adequately search for targets either.
Honestly a rushed feature with too many bugs, and we “suffer” for it.
So hopefully its fixes get done as quickly as possible, and if LOAL is needed hopefully the implementation of that comes soon.
Yeah, you have locking issues if there is no datalink to give the missile data about where it should go. The missile does not know where it is if it does not know where it is going to be.
Despite this, you can still try to launch missiles towards a target in the hopes that the enemy will fall into the locking area of the homing head, as the Tan-SAM kai possess the “Maddog” ARH missile launch mode! Let us explain — when the missile is launched in the direction of a suspected enemy target, the missile may (or may not!) lock onto whoever is in the direction of flight and will go after them, including allied aircraft. Yeah, we can see how this one is going to work out! Make sure to be careful when using these missiles when you no longer have a radar vehicle or have turned off the radar.
the missile may (or may not!) lock onto whoever is in the direction of flight
That cuz Justin was launching them in that specifi way.
Launch like that meant the missile searched in a cone in front of it, if it failed to lock, it was flying in a straight line.
What you could have also done, is put the lock circle on the target, then the missile would have the target locked, and it would fly for it.
The problem with this tactic was, that the circle was above the missile direct line, so a launch like that against a low flying target would mean the missile would slam into the ground. That was intentional Gaijin choice to make it like that, as they could have corrected it very easly.
no the SD-10A is already advertised to mach 5, no idea where you got PL-12A from since there is literally no information on it (even if you also take the PL-12AE as a source)
Then does this: (Too lazy to take a pic in game, fight me)
(This is only a handful of examples but this is a plague that infects every nation in the game atp…)
Spoiler
What should we get from this ? Like okay MiG-35 failed to get needed reqirements for Indian air force so as Grippen, F-18/16 and Typhoon are they also unrelaible ?
My original post was insulting the use of AI, but I just pointed out the misinformation instead.
And all of my posts are supportive of fixing the many issues with vehicles such as Tan-SAM Kai regardless; because while the post has errors, none of those errors were about vehicle problems.
