I think they can, these SPAAs, like AMRAAM-SL, IRIS-T things, are auto guided with good mobility, it’s not flying sticks like pantsir’s 95Ya6, they can deal with low and close target. acually, they may be worse when dealing with far and high targets, because their thrust is not so powerful as current top SPAAs.
though sadly USSR won’t get this kind, since there is none, upgraded Pantsir won’t help any.
3 F-35 models
we are only ones with F-35C because we are the only ones with carriers good enough to use them.
i think F-22 will come earlier, after all it did enter service with AIM-9M, no HMD, and AIM-120C (which can be C-1 which iirc is just a clipped wing 120B so equal to current AIM-120 ingame)
while F-35 requires 9X, 120C-5/7 or D, HMD, the works
maybe a later F-22 will come but the early F-22 should come before other 5th gen
armament equilvalent or wrose than current jets, no HMD, FM similar to EFT/Rafale except for really low and really high speed where it shines, its biggest advantage will be its radar which is still probably worse than the ones on upgraded strike eagles
1 Like
The F-22 will honestly be a complete enigma. Like you said, it could come with AIM-120C-3s (literally AIM-120Bs but with smaller fins), AIM-9Ms, and no HMD. The issue is it’s still a F-22, and its stealth and flight performance are utterly insane.
I’m more of a fan of delaying the F-22 for a LONG time - at the very very least 1.5 to 2 years. We should get vehicles like the F-15EX long before the F-22 in my opinion. At the very least the EX fits what WT has to offer and can be countered by advanced Su-30s and/or the Su-35 (and the EFs/Rafale that we already have). The F-22 requires a whole suite of stealth fighters to counter it, which is far beyond what we currently have in game.
Personally, I’m hoping Gaijin decides to go the more sane route and adds the F-22 much later with all the bells and whistles it has IRL (HMD, IRST pods, 9Xs, later 120Cs/Ds, etc.). I feel like the game has to go through a whole host of changes (new gamemodes, ECM, improved DL, etc.) before the F-22 should arrive.
ive had this discussion before and its generally come to:
- more advanced 4.5 gen fighters, later versions of EFT (cant really do that for rafale since we already got 2019 one), upgraded F-15, F-16 and such (like F-15E late/F-15SA or F-16E/PoBIT)
- non-stealth getting better missiles like 120C-5 or even C-7 vs C-3 on F-22
as for changes before F-22, only 1 major one comes to mind, that being TVC (which will hopefully come on Su-30). stealth, supercruise, AESA, are all present ingame already
IRST can be used to reduce stealth advantage too. fortunately all the 4.5 gen i can think of have some kind of IRST pod or have it built in
The main thing the Rafale could benefit from is an ungimping of the MICA. As far as I am aware it should have the range of the AIM-120A/B, but it’s being held back for balancing purposes like the AAM-4. Maybe once the AIM-120C-5 and R-77-1 come we can see the AAM-4 and MICA receive their respective proper performance metrics.
I’m not really a fan of this being an option. I would much rather stealth planes get proper BR adjustments with their proper armament. I also feel like proper ECM implementation would allow 4-4.5 gen aircraft to resist stealth aircraft much nicer.
Again, ECM would be a nice addition on top of this.
I’m actually curious to see whether Gaijin will allow IRST to actually have proper datalink. From what I could gather, IRST should be able to provide DL data to a missile, but I could be wrong about that.
AN/ALR-94 can geolocate based on just picked up signals, ECM is just feeding it targeting data tbh.
agree with MICA and better ARH in general
however AIM-9M and AIM-120C is the F-22A’s (early block) proper armament. every US fighter before this has come in an early version and i expect, and hope for the same for F-22. F-22A early will be like an F-15A but instead of fighting F-4F ICE and F3 Late with AIM-7M (while they have AIM-120), it will be fighting fixed MICA rafales, 120C-5/7 EFT and F-15 while having AIM-120C-3 and AIM-9M
for IRST, a lot of the planes that have it have some kind of sensor fusion so im pretty sure that it can datalink IRST info to counter notch/future ECM
The F-22 can easily come with things like the Typhoon T3, Rafale C F.4, et cetera. In that case, the only major advantage will be stealth, which can be mitigated by giving other aircraft superior weaponry.
1 Like
I agree, but I also doubt we’re going to be getting those soon.
I feel as though the F-15EX is a better pick for the short-medium time frame (ie. this year), and the F-22 (late) makes sense for a long term additon.
itll get beaten in every category except for radar (unless they add late F-15’s, which i think is likely), supercruise speed, and stealth
i think maybe an F-15C (late) update after this next one. F-15E (late) summer with super hornet, and F-15SA the update after that. then, for right before december, F-15EX and F-15SG (428th FS) premium or sqv
1 Like
I doubt we’re getting the F-15SA. At that point just add the EX
EX has far better weapons, radar, more CM, better RWR
it makes sense to add F-15SA as the first advanced eagle because it is the first advanced eagle
The weapon loadout doesn’t matter as much since it’s compatible with earlier weapons. The radar is a nice upgrade yes, but as long as Gaijin continues to model AESA radars incorrectly it doesn’t matter. More CMs and better RWR are not going to mean anything in WT.
Again, just jump to the EX.
1 Like
I really hope that Russia will get some new jets this update… I’ve by all intents practically completed the USSR air tree by now. I guess I could play the MiG-29SMT still but with how much I’ve heard about that plane not being fun; kind of iffy on that. Honestly really looking forward to the newer Flanker models.
I also really hope that the R-77 missile finally gets it’s FM fixed. Russia could really use more BVR capability, even though arguably it is very satisfying to kill Eurofighters and F-15Es with my “worse” missiles and planes…
Those interested in the subject, go check out this bug report. I sent a private message to a technical moderator in hopes of getting Gaijin to actually acknowledge the report.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/YAjZMm4uCKO8
The Su-30SM is effectively confirmed.
2 Likes
Su-30SM should be interesting. I’m curious if they’re going to add it with the R-77-1.
Would also be nice if Gaijin fixed the MiG-29’s FM
1 Like
They basically said that they don’t think it’s much better than the R-77 in the fourth Covert Disclosure, so I doubt it.
I honestly think before they add more missiles of this family, they should fix how the fins perform. Check out the bug report I sent in my OP to get a detailed explanation of what I’m talking about. But TLDR is that the fins are modeled incorectly, and thus, the drag present is excessive. Especially at supersonic speeds.
The MiG-29’s FM is an odd case… From what I understand it’s not moreso the fact that it’s inaccurate, it’s the fact that it’s subject to far too much realism. At least, that’s how I’ve understood it? I mean, yeah, it would be nice to have the aircraft perform around the same as the F-16, so the match up that was intended could be had. But we can only hope.
The R-77 being fixed could hopefully happen though. But again, I do think that the FM should be fixed before they add the R-77-1; because it would suffer from the same issues.
Honestly, the biggest thing I’m looking for is the radar upgrade. But from what I’ve read the engines would be better too.
What could we expect from the N011M radar though from being modeled in-game? I honestly kind of find researching radars a bit tedious. I presume we can expect something similar to the Yak-141 radar but even better?
I always found this to be such a weird point. Why does Gaijin think they’re somehow an empirical authority on this? If it really was so pointless, why would Russia themselves put the missile into mass production while the original R-77 was not? By this logic, we should remove most of the AIM-9 variants because there’s not that much difference between them; especially the mid to late pre- all aspect variants.
The R-77-1 has an upgraded seeker, the 9B-1103M compared to the earlier 9B-1348E seeker with improved ECM, better IOG and all the things that come with a better seeker. While it’s not anything massive, a better seeker is always nice because it makes the missile harder to defeat. That alone should make it worthwhile.
Along with the range upgrade from the 80km to 110km is nice too. While that is “on paper” range, it still means that the missile has, in practice, an easier time hitting stuff. Like the R-27R and R-27ER.
I just never understood this argument/reasoning. Should Gaijin delete the AIM-7M because the AIM-7F is practically the same? Those missiles only have really a seeker head change. Much like the R-77 and R-77-1… The R-77-1 on top of that has aerodynamics changes and said improved range.
My argument isn’t necessarily directed at you personally by the way, don’t take it that way. I just find it very puzzling that Gaijin has these leaps of logic when it comes to stuff like this at times. And I’d like to make my own opinion on the subject known.
I just don’t see what Gaijin loses by adding said missile. They’ve done with the AIM-7 and AIM-9 variants like I said before.
The Su-30SM uses the Saturn AL-31FP which has no difference in max thrust output compared to AL-31F, the main difference is the thrust-vectoring capability.
The Su-30 family is heavier than the Su-27, which is to be expected. The Su-30MKI, MKA, and MKM are all listed to have an empty weight of 18,400kg, almost two tons of weight increase. I would imagine the Su-30SM to be of similar weight so the thrust-to-weight ratio will actually be lower than the Su-27S or SM, meaning slower acceleration and climb rate.
The radar, N011M “Bars,” is quite a big improvement over N001 “Mech” and estimates place it having a search range of 140-160 km against an aircraft with a radar-cross section of 3-5 square meters, compared to 80-100km on the N001.
1 Like