You know… there was a poll for this here… But most people wanted to retain the sphere of death APHE.
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Heli rush was common after releasing helicopters like KA-50 where your are able to kill 2 or 3 tanks before being shot down.
If we simply give every nation an M163/ZSU-23/Veak 40 equivalent, then moved em to 8.3, then the Gepards could be moved to 9.0 without issues.
As for helis, I 100% agree the early ATGM helis should move up to match the Gepards.
Absolutely not. I’m sorry but Gepards are allready easy to deal with planes. Especially if you have access to some big rockets.
35mm Oerlikon vs planes is fine. It’s versus tanks that they are broken.
And that could’ve been fixed with the APHE rework that most of the playerbase so vehemently denied.
You want to fix the broken 35mm APHE ? Do the APHE rework.
The Gepard would perform just fine against air targets at 9.0
It really doesn’t…
Actually it does. At 9.0, it will face sunsonics with ballistics computers, and in FULL uptiers, it will face supersonics with ballistic computers. It will also face subsonics with early AGMs.
Both of which match the Gepards quite well.
Wrong
Yea… Figured you’ve never played the gepards or other stuff armed with Oerlikons.
I have XM246. Now in all fairness, I have like 10 games on it since I’ve been mainly grinding Germany and Russia for the past month, but I faced 0 troubles shooting down planes . . . well, aside from the lack of planes at 8.3
Ok I’ll say this again 9.0 IS NOT built for the Oerlikon 35’s. At 9.0-10.0 they will face RWR systems and supersonic CAS it will FORCE people to play them in the TD role because their AA abilities will be obsolete which will only cause more complaints. It will also cause massive AA gaps letting CAS become unchecked in multiple BR brackets. Also let me repeat myself the M163, VEAK40, LUCHS A2, SUB-I-II, and Shilka are already fairly bad at their respective BR’s of 7.0-7.7 especially due to most of them lacking radars. Moving them up would be absolutely terrible and would ruin 3+ BR brackets worth of CAS and AA’s by making massive gaps and also making most of them obsolete.
Also the issue for moving the Oerlikon 35’s to 9.0 didn’t really have anything to do with gaps I’ll quote you on this one “minor nations are eternally doomed to have major gaps” it was never the problem (unless of course you try to compensate for the gaps which will just throw everything off) the problem in the first place was that the Oerlikon 35’s were too good at destroying ground targets not air targets which wouldn’t change if you moved them to 9.0 it would just make 9.0 a real crap show with broken AA’s played as TD’s. If you wanted to fix the problem move some planes like the A32A (high sub-sonic with a bomb ballistics computer) from 9.0 to something like 8.7/8.3 even though I don’t really agree with that it will be better than moving the Oerlikons up.
However I do agree with you that early ATGM helis should be chained to the Oerlikon tanks.
That’s good, Gepards SHOULD be facing RWR and supersonics. It’s really stupid that 1980s SPAA is facing 1940s and 50s CAS.
It’s rare to see more than one or two CAS planes spawn per team per game. 8.3 does not have CAS issues.
Worst case scenario? Just give an M163/ZSU-23/Veak 40 equivalent to every nation and move em to 8.3
First off, 1970s SPAA
Second, historical matchmaking is not the debate right now.
Let me say it for the 3rd time the VEAK40, VADS, SHILKA, and other 7.0 ish AA have NO PLACE at 8.3 they will become completely obsolete in the AA role.
If we are going in historical matchmaking then every howitzer in game should be at 14.0 and almost every Swedish tank from reserve-4.0 ish should be about 7.0-8.0 it’s not a good argument and historical matchmaking is beside the point.
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I also would like to point out I spent a month grinding out the Gepard for my German 8.3 line up because I was getting CAS ed to much.
Also the CAS at 8.3 is insane you have the IL-28 TU-14 every vampire in game and the SAAB-105 series to name a few
Leopard or any radar SPAAs should be consider to against CAS with RWR/CCIP, instead we need to give some place for non-radar SPAA such as Falcon or ZSU-23-4M2, and even some of very powerful SPAA such as PGZ09 or M247 have 100% control of the sky, which make the opponents cannot use any CAS/Helis.
By the way, I still wondering that any of the players could play CAS as good as toptier or WWII BR in this BR range, such as using F84F, F9F, or Meteors, even IL28 or Me262. Except the speed, they are not effiency as the props, there is only one CAS that with CCIP could counter this Radar spaa SAAB-105. For the other CAS, just like jokes when you try to go against the radar SPAA, most of times even try to kamikaze is still like a delusion. According to statistics, most of players at this BR range have CAS KD is even lower than 1
I think you misunderstand what OP is trying to convey. Most of the 35mm SPAA are incredible at anti-tank duties (XM246, Gepard, ZA-35, ItPsV). They’re so good in fact, that the ZA-35 and ItPsV have both snatched multiple nuke WRs. So you basically end up with an inflated number of SPAA every match because of it which by extension makes CAS less effective by proxy because they have 2+ anti-everything vehicles running around at all times before you even take into account the other “normal” SPAA in the match.
The actual anti-air capabilities of then 35mm vehicles isn’t the problem. The problem lies with the anti-ground capabilities also being incredible. OP is just focusing on one of the symptoms this problem has caused.
They actually do pretty good at 8.3. before the XM246 was added (which was like 2 months ago) the only SPAA option for 8.3 was the M163.
No1 is talking about historical matchmaking.
Seeing more than one or two planes at 8.3 is rare. What’s even more rare is dying to one.
Personally, I prefer the F-84F’s CCRP over CCIP when it comes to destroying SPAA.
Your Gepard can do shit when Q-5L dropping guide bombs on you and your teammate’s asses?
Q5L is 10.3 in GRB