Then don’t use the two terms interchangeably and expect people to understand.
You would have understood if you had read the rest of the paragraph, just saying:
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I’d be surprised if anyone could understand that. My best guess is you think too many players are using prop planes, but not when you’re downtierd.
You are essentially missing the entire point of what I said. I acknowledged that SPAA is fine to counter any air vehicles. I want people to spawn SPAA to counter air vehicles.
What I don’t want is too many people spawning them at the start of the match to effectively combat ground vehicles, while still having the ability to control air space at the same time. Right now that is exactly what’s happening and because of it there are always multiple enemy SPAA scattered across the battlefield.
Surprisingly, you yourself are stating the point I am raising. SPAA currently are essentially the same as light tanks with the additional ability of combating air vehicles due to having a radar. That should not be the case.
But increasing the BR of the Gepard woudn’t really solve this problem…
I would still be able to be an autocannon against ground targets… The only difference in increasing the BR would be that it is less effective against aircraft. Which wouldn’t be the goal.
Just look at the Gepard 1A2, a whole 1.7 BR above the normal Gepard, with the same guns and ammo as the normal Gepard. It can still engage in tank to tank combat quite fairly (although it is quite limited in its capabilities).
How bout you get better with your CAS rather than demanding the SPAA get unnecessarily uptiered?
Situational and Battlefield awareness are imperative both in a tank and in an aircraft.
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In a plane I agree but helicopters have it pretty rough at that BR area
Gepard and the like are also irritating to fight in tanks at best
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Already too much. Who would think it’s proper for one vehicle type to be strong enough to eliminate spawning (more than the effect on play style) the other vehicle type…
Plus we are having 600+sp planes as kill streak bonus, and we have CAP in our game, being not effective against ground compared to CAS & not effective against air compared to SPAA & same vulnerable against SPAA. lmao
So no one use the 300sp on heli despite helirush option still exists. Problematic.
Stock grind.
See
Just do SA in SPAA and use “point and click”
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Funnily enough, this can be applied to interaction between non-SPAA ground units vs. CAS.
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So there would better be cover across the map (already there on full city maps) and a concrete lid on ground spawn. and ofc other map changes
And a way to make sure that someone is on SPAA, which leads to match making issues. Or there will be situations where a worst flying brick doing 0 defensive moves kills everyone just bcs no one spawns a best SPAA
Ah yes, chieftain marksman needs to be worse than it already is.
(if you mention a range of vehicles, make sure you specify or you will get this backlash)(wow)
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I didn’t ask for its BR to be increased.
We all know that thing is a tank destroyer in disguise.
I didn’t ask for a BR increase.
This is a crazy thread with how many CAS players first thought upon reading that people don’t like them is “just first spawn spaa bro”
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That would help solve the issue
Which is fine. They shouldn’t be oppressive. Learn to flank, when to strike, when to retreat and improve situational and battlefield awareness.
I am very doubtful about this statement.
Please tell me the effect of someone spawning CAS and being uncontested on the team full of tanks. Saying that a gepard, a gun only SPAA, completely “eliminates” people spawning planes is disingenuous at best, stupid at worst. Its effective range is around 2 to 3 kilometers, anything above that can move up and down to completely evade all rounds, and thats assuming the Gepard player has a brain. Most people tend to fire as soon as they see a plane at 5km range revealing their position while thinking that itll hit when the plane only has to slightly change vector to completely sidestep the rounds.
this doesnt mean anything, even if the planes would cost 7000 SP it still doesnt mean that the SPAA should somehow be less effective or there be less of said SPAA around. Going into planes is both a risk and a reward. Risk because you have to keep in mind there might be enemy CAP or enemy SPAAs and reward because dropping a bomb on a tank is much easier than killing it with another tank, plus youre less likely to die to a tank in a plane.
You can use it, never did i say you shouldnt be allowed to heli rush, however you should like with everything use it with a brain, if you fly like a moron straight to the battlefield then yea, you deserve to die no matter the SP cost. Moot point.
Except for helis the much better and quicker option is Assault Ground Arcade. Until you get AGMs anyway. Besides a lot of the helicopters around the gepard BR arent that hard to get to AGMs or a functional GRB status.
A) that is not up to you to control what other people decide to bring
B) effectively combat enemy ground vehicles is bit of a mixed bag, gepard shreds from side but from front isnt very effective unless the enemy tank is some paper armored tank. So in essence you have to play it very much like a light tank and flank or die.
And just like i said, due to them acting like light tanks they also have a lot of the light tanks weaknesses. They are forced to flank since 9/10 times in a frontal engagement they will get oneshot before doing any meaningful damage. They cant scout unlike light tanks to reduce SP of planes and helicopters (cough cough “my 600SP killstreak” cough cough) but can engage (more or less) enemy planes and helicopters.
I agree with what morvan said, it is more a compression issue than anything else. Any moron can avoid gepard (dont fly in a straight line) assuming they arent just flying within 500meters of it, you move it up in BR and you make it basically useless with the introduction of FnF or laser guided AGMs.
You “take away its APIT” and it cant defend itself incase enemy tanks push it, HEIT doesnt do much against anything thats not open top and the 40 APDS rounds are not going to save you for long.
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Go play ~8.7-9.3-ish and see if CAS is still a thing.
Not only gepards, but that’s what you should see around the BR range. About A2G interactions, they are discusses enough in other threads lmao not gonna do that again. Maybe try to do SA, take cover and learn to be accurate when playing SPAA as ground mains usually ask CAS to be good at?
We don’t talk about that here as we don’t assume CAS to fly straight.
Why not have less risk and more reward on the ground? ww2 style drops are long gone while people do spawn SPAAs - maybe they die in tanks too early due to our fast games?
lmao “use skill and you kill a leo2 with bt5”
Do you actually know how helirush performs now? Don’t tell me you think our game only have kamovs
And Assault Arcade is long, dull, arcade with official-cheat bot and bad maps all around. Not an excuse for keeping stock pain.
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Heli rushing is high risk, but also high reward. You have the risk of being shot down, but you also have the possible reward of multiple kills.
Yes, most the times heli rushing is a one way trip, regardless if the other team has a SPAA or not. Because once you are heard by the team, everything will shoot at you.
An early spawn SPAA is just there to lessen the risk for ground. As you said yourself:
Why not have less risk and more reward on the ground?
Stock is always pain. But most helis (in 8.0 to 9.0) have their guided ATGMs stock or at rank 1 or 2 of the modifications, so you should unlock them relatively quick.
If you find Arcade Assult to be to boring, of course you can try heli-rushing. But don’t expect free kills then.
This is real cope. The ITPSV 90 leopard marksman is already 8.7 and it is still an absolute beast against everything not even using the DM23.
Air targets: I think most of the 35 Oerlikon vehicles are fine where they are because if they were all moved up CAS and helis in the 8.0 range would become relatively unchecked only facing things like the M163, VEAK40, SUB I-II, and Luchs A2 which either have excessively mid radars or none at all and also dont have too many good round types in their belt selection. Heli players at this BR already rack up kills fairly easily. I average about 2 kills a game in the SA Alouette and dont run into many spaa problems and im considering running the HPK3C again because of the lack of problems. (Also the swedish A32A is pretty good CAS at 9.0) The introduction of RWR systems at 9.0 will also prove to be a further damper for these AA’s performance forcing people to play them in a different role bringing me to my next topic…
Ground targets: Holy mother of pearl. I agree the TD abilities of the Oerlikon 35’s are unmatched and should probably be nerfed in some way or another but I absolutely DO NOT think this justifies a BR change no matter where you put these SPAA they will ruin the BR outright… to an extent because people love playing tanks unconventionally. However nerfing the APHE does not fix the APDS and if you nerfed both of them people wouldn’t play them anymore.
A bit more on why a BR change is not the way to go: This isn’t too dissimilar to the current problem with the VIDAR and TURM III there is absolutely no way they would get moved down because they’re too good but they’re so good that moving them up wouldn’t really do anything except screw over a different BR bracket so it leaves a lot of vehicles stuck in weird and sometimes unfair BR situations. And even when moving vehicles up if you don’t move them up far enough it screws over a different BR bracket but if you move them up too far no one will play them. To prove this I can tell you the results of my recent games with a lineup consisting of the J32B Lansen, BT-42, VEAK40, ZSU-57-2, and ITPSV 90 Leopard Marksman if you would like (at 9.3 due to the Lansen) because it is proof that moving up SPAA in general will not help.