Nerf SPAA from 8.0 to 9.0

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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211

I am dead serious here, and not joking.

People love to complain about CAS, but then when some counters to CAS are actually able to be effective, they get screamed about until they are no longer effective at defending themselves, after which they sit uselessly in spawn and their effectiveness vs CAS plummets, leading to resumption of complaints about CAS.

I personally would rather see people scream about SPAA than scream about CAS if given the choice. I’ve played the Gepard and gotten some funny tank kills with it, but most of those were either side shots through thin side armor (which any tank could do from much further away at a greater variety of angles) or cupola shots (a BS feature for any APHE). Barrel damage-induced kills are indeed obnoxious, but you don’t solve that by nerfing SPAAG - you update how barrel damage works.

No, I’m sick of the screaming and the devs caving to said screaming which more often than not makes the entire game worse. Hence I want to see the screamers broken by wearing themselves out until they give the fuck up.

This is a problem of city maps forcing engagement at point blank, first and foremost. Outside short range the 35mm Oerlikons lose their effectiveness. You solve this by opening up maps so city is no more than one of the three objectives, not by nerfing SPAAG.

This is a problem of armor holes, which only remain an issue because the devs still have not made every tank use a fully volumetric armor model. You solve this by slowing down new vehicle addition and making all tanks use fully volumetric armor models with no more seams between plates or MG port holes.

This is a problem of barrel damage enabling vehicles with weak guns to prevent opponents from shooting. You solve this by making shooting barrel tips no longer prevent successful firing of the gun.

This is a problem of cupola shots being allowed at all, as a side effect of APHE postpen being ridiculous. You solve this by globally reducing APHE postpen.

None of these are exclusively the domain of SPAAG - SPAAG just happen to be good at exploiting these issues that existed long before any 35mm Oerlikon was added. You don’t solve any of these by nerfing SPAAGs - unless your only goal is to throw a rug over these and other puke stains instead of actually cleaning them up properly…

I have played the game for 10+ years, man. Every major vehicle type outside higher tiers, because that level of grind and stale gameplay have turned me very much off.

Nope, I am here to offer new ideas which have not been tried before. I see a game I enjoy slowly stabbing itself to death because it refuses to try innovative solutions to its long-term problems.

The game has been attempting to hem people in by repeatedly nerfing SPAAGs, hoping they get used for their intended job of hunting CAS. It hasn’t worked. Thus, I had the “controversial” idea of proceeding in the other direction, of restoring and buffing their tank-killing ability alongside making their use against CAS considerably easier, both in spite of and to spite the people screaming about SPAAGs being “OP.”

I have played the Gepard, FYI, and its about halfway spaded. I have gotten some kills in it that I think were bullshit (M48s and M60s through cupolas). I have gotten many more which were not bullshit (like hosing down a Conqueror who drove past with his hull side visible that’s only 38mm thick), especially light tanks.

But I refuse to have any arguments about individual vehicle stats, because I see such arguments as infantile. Anyone who sweats enough can artificially inflate stats to be whatever they want them to be - I just choose not do do such, because at the end of the day, it’s a GAME, not a JOB.

By all means, make me laugh some more by proving your immaturity since you choose to bring up player stats. The fact that you resort to stat-whoring suggests you have no actual arguments left. There are many people here and on the old forum I disagreed with, sometimes quite strongly, but I have never even once sunk low enough to stalk someone’s player statistics. If we’re talking vehicle characteristics, player statistics should not be particularly relevant, now should they?

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This has nothing to do with CAS. This has to do with SPAA being better than MBTs at the same BR at being MBTs. You are better off playing xm246/gepard/za-35 than leopard 1/amx-30/amx-32/m60 etc right now.

They NEVER cater to complaints.

You’re just trolling for attention.

My entire french lineup at 10.0 is frontally penetrable by the 35mm spaa’s from 500-800 meters out.

SPAA do this far better than MBTs because they have no possibility of failing to kill instantly with 30 nuke APHE shells entering the cabin instantly and with faster rotating turrets and more mobile hulls.

High caliber APHE overpens cupolas. SPAA doesn’t and nukes the interior. You can also miss with high pen guns. You cannot miss with 35mm’s rate of fire. I have cross mapped tanks into their cupolas from 1km+ away.

Dumbs down the game instead of fixing the problem vehicles.

Your stats do not show what you claim.

You’ve suggested to just make the entire community resent the game. Congratulations.

Name 3 nerfs to SPAAGs.

Trolling.

So little experience.

No. You have to be good. Not being good = not getting good stats.

I’m just saying you have no idea what you’re talking about and you’re here to get attention.

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Do You have any data to back it up?

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What sort of data would I even point to? I’m using my skilled experience.

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Monthly data of vehicles stats?

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Leopard 1s are glass cannons, and are functionally little better than Hellcats. Expecting their armor to stop anything is quite an interesting take. AMX-30s are cut from the same cloth. M60s have weak hull sides and giant cupolas - I agree the cupola shots are bullshit but its not exclusively something SPAAG exploit. I’ve killed M60s that way using the goddamn SAV 20.12.48! I have not played the AMX-32, but if its similar to the 30, the same point stands.

Every CAS nerf in the game’s history very much disagrees with this statement. Many of the changes in the changelogs are catering to complaints. The reduced RP costs on Parts and FPE in higher ranks were literally them catering to complaints. Giving one stock FPE unit and partial part repairs before getting modules was catering to complaints. Making Bombers in Air RB made of glass was catering to complaints from fighter players. I could go on and on with many examples more.

No, I am dead serious here also. Some people will never stop screaming about some part of the game. Those folk must be boxed in, isolated, and then left to rot until they stop.

Do tell - what is this lineup specifically? Any light tank is going to die to these AAs from considerable range. Any ATGM carrier will also. Any Leopard 1-style fast MBT will be only slightly more durable in some places from the front.

This is an issue with global APHE postpen, and is not specific to SPAAGs. Except for the ITSPV, most SPAAGs have rather glassy MBT hulls, and the 35mm Oerlikon turrets are glassy to even the likes of heavy machine gun fire. I remember spading my T-10M, getting jumped by an ITSPV who barreled me, and I hosed him down with my 14.5 until he died. It was more annoying than really game-breaking.

This is again due to APHE performance globally. SPAAG are effective at exploiting it due to fire rate, yes, but it is not exclusive to them either.

Actually fixes way more of the game, doesn’t dumb it down. It solves the much-complained-about “waaaahhhh but MUH JUMBOOOO” people I can’t stand, because without barrel damage, the thing’s stats would get much worse and it would finally drop in BR, leading to a cease of the screaming about that tank whenever any other heavily-armored vehicle gets so much as proposed to drop in BR even slightly. It solves countless big slow armored tanks having little in the way of effective armor due to everyone just defaulting to shooting the gun.

SPAAG can no longer just casually spray at a tank’s barrel to disable it, and would be deleted by the tank they’re trying to shoot at much more regularly. Thus overall SPAAG performance would go down, and the ones overtiered due to tank killing potential would also drop substantially.

Some parts of the community should not be listened to, because the things they want would harm the experience of everything else.

If you make SPAAG effective at killing tanks, but also make other weapons that should easily delete any SPAAG off the face of the Earth actually work properly, then you have no issue. I agree the XM246’s turret design is more than a little stupid, but all the KDA turrets are literally giant blocks of ammo waiting to blow up.

I can name many more than 3:

  • Forced mixed belts on many WW2-era SPAAGs’ anti-tank belts, which in some cases have not been un-nerfed yet like the Kugelblitz.
  • “Shell Shattered” on all APCR and sharp-nosed APDS rounds dramatically reducing effectiveness of anti-tank belts on many SPAAGs when they should have more than enough pen to go through without issue. I was shooting a Panther at nearly point blank and only a very slight angle with the Czech 30mm truck for Russia, and most rounds shattered even though they should have penned. Utter nonsense.
  • Global reductions on all APCR and APDS postpen because of SPAAGs.
  • Limiting SPAAGs to puny ammo counts of APDS or APFSDS in higher tiers when IFVs with similar or sometimes the same cannons get as much as they want of those.
  • Not including ammo types many SPAAG guns should have access to also qualifies as a nerf in my book.

Again, I am dead serious here too. Trying the same mode of action on the same system and expecting a different result literally is insanity. Call it “trolling” if you wish, however.

Enough to see firsthand the stuff being complained about between this and also the Coelian after the buff to its APHE that thing had.

The fact that you completely ignore the possibility of artificial stat inflation through any number of means is quite…concerning. In tanks, this would primarily be coordinated squad play and/or only spawning a particular vehicle in ideal circumstances like full downtiers on good maps. But whatever, such things are a waste of my time to try arguing about.

You’ve convinced yourself of something to de-legitimize anything I say simply because you want to disagree with me, just because I dare to suggest something other than “AA kill muh TONK! AA BAD! AA GET NERF!”

I already said why I am here. I have seen variations of this argument for the majority of the years I have played this game, as far back as when the Whirbelwind was still considered a menace in 3.7 with 65mm pen APCR that actually gave decent postpen.

I’ve seen literally the same damn argument happen against tankbusting SPAAG for nearly a decade. AA kills tanks. Some people complain saying they should be killing CAS. AA gets nerfed to placate whiners. AA still doesn’t kill CAS and either sits uselessly in own spawn or doesn’t get used at all. Then in many cases the same people who whined about the AA now turn around and whine about the CAS. Cycle repeats when either a new AA with functioning guns is added, or new rounds for existing ones that work are added. It doesn’t end.

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the Xm246 is quite literally pulling better stats than the m60 aos right now for starters

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Honestly didn’t read the wall of text this time. You’re not a reasonable person.

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Whatever man. You are too angry at dying to SPAAG to be able to see any alternative lines of thought that do not align with your own.

I’d advise taking a long break from the Oerlikon BR range if they bother you that much. Stop being so obsessed with “grinding.” Play things you actually enjoy, even if fully spaded since forever. There’s many, many more things than just 8.0-9.0 entry MBTs.

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No, just your unreasonable takes of “let’s make it worse because it would be funny”. You failed to provide anything of value.

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My difference is that I see the people screaming about the SPAAG as more damaging to the game as a whole than the SPAAG themselves. I do not think the community is remotely innocent on this issue, nor on several others. And because they aren’t innocent they shouldn’t be victimized either.

There are real problems SPAAG exploit - I agree with you here - but nerfing SPAAGs only covers up these larger problems and does little to nothing to solve them, while enabling other problems to grow in prominence due to the nerfed SPAAG. Truly fixing SPAAGs will not be easy due to needing to actually address the things they happen to be good at exploiting, as well as giving all BR ranges larger maps with better objectives than cap points to suit and use larger maps effectively.

You nerf the SPAAG tank-killing ability, they now sit in their own spawns. CAS obliterates stuff at the front lines. People complain “where sam hell are the goddamn SPAA!” but nobody stops to think “oh wait my screaming made them useless so they sit over there instead of helping me, I did it to myself…”

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You seem to be contradicting yourself here.

If the “inflated number of spaa” are so busy tank-hunting, how are they making “CAS less effective”? And then you go on to say “anti-air capabilities isn’t the problem”

How are the CAS less effective?

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Sorry but you’re out of your mind regarding SPAAs and their ammo belts.

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You’re tank hunting, see a plane, and stop what you’re doing to kill it before going back to tank hunting. That simple. I used to do it in the 2S38 all the time when I played ground more

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You’re tank hunting - means you are farther forward - see a plane and start shooting - announcing your presence to all the tanks you were hunting.

The spaa have tracer rounds, unlike your 2S38.

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2 options:
Give them AHEAD as main
or
SP cost increase.
Since Gepard (for example) is used to protect air, use only AHEAD and if you want to go FULL SEND IT BRRRRRTTTT, more SP.