That doesn’t really make sense because you’re arguing against a straw man rather than my actual point.
You’re also overlooking some of the Object 906’s biggest advantages, such as its incredibly fast reload and fully stabilized gun. Those features allow it to get the first shot off against most opponents that don’t have a stabilizer.
I think you’re significantly overestimating the M46’s capabilities. At the end of the day, it’s still an upgraded M26 with a better engine and improved gun handling. It’s never going to outperform a Leopard 1, which has way more powerful ammunition that can destroy the M46 with a single shot from long distances.
By that same logic, the T-34-85 should be at the same BR as the Object 906 simply because they both have 85 mm guns and powerful APHE rounds. Obviously, that ignores all the other factors that determine a vehicle’s effectiveness.
You stated it fills an important role in the 7.0 line-ups, I’m saying that’s not a valid reason for keeping it at 7.0.
You also stated it’s not too powerful because opposing vehicles can destroy it easily, I pointed out how that’s also not a valid argument, because a vehicle being easily destroyed does not mean it cannot be undertiered.
No, I’m not.
I’m showing the error of your argument by a point of comparison.
In this instance I used a vehicle with infamously poor armour protection and poor survivability to show how that hasn’t stopped it from being incredibly powerful.
If you understand that in regards to the Object 906, you should understand the same for the M46.
This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire game.
APHE + HEAT-FS is a better, more versatile loadout than APDS + HEAT-FS.
APDS and HEAT-FS are both high penetration, low damage output shells. The Leopard 1 would be much better if it had APHE.
The M46 has a combination of incredibly high damage output, average penetration, as well as high penetration, low damage output shells. That means it’s got superior firepower. (Also has a 50. cal btw).
The M46 can also penetrate a Leopard 1 anywhere at any distance in return, if you’re going to apply that argument to the M46, you need to also apply it to the Leopard 1.
Furthermore, you can’t get around the fact that:
At worst, the M46 is a sidegrade to a Leopard 1, yet there is a massive 1.0 BR gap.
Dismissing these facts with a mere mention of ‘‘It’s just an upgraded M26’’ ignores just how impactful those upgrades are. Those upgrades are what makes it a 7.3 vehicle.
And all of that is easily proven by the M47 and M48 being at higher BR’s (despite being M46 sidegrades) and still performing fine.
This relates to the RU-251 because people seemingly don’t understand the utility of APHE on the 90mm and how much more powerful that makes a vehicle.
Most players just pick HEAT-FS because they see the biggest pen number and assume it must be the best shell.
RU-251 receiving APHE is a valid reason for it to move up in BR.
The M46 plays an important role as America’s 7.0 medium tank. If it were moved up, you’d have to fill the lineup with 6.7 vehicles instead, which is something a lot of players don’t want. Most of the American 7.0 lineup is made up of premium vehicles, and one of those premiums is extremely expensive, making it inaccessible for many players.
As a result, that lineup would become much less effective. You’d end up with below average to average players leaving after one or two deaths because the lineup has significantly decreased in size without the M46s. You’re basing your argument on your own experience as a skilled player, but as I said before, that isn’t representative of the vast majority of people who play the game.
Think about it: if the M46 were truly as overpowered as you’re describing, it would have been moved up in BR a long time ago. But it hasn’t, has it?
Nobody is misunderstanding your point. The issue is that you’re unwilling to accept that you’re the reason the tank performs so well, and not the tank itself. It’s like Max Verstappen complaining that his car is too good, when he’s the one behind the wheel making the biggest difference.
I understand your points, but I think you’re greatly exaggerating the M46’s effectiveness.
It literally talks about this in multiple sources. It’s one of the most basic facts about it that almost everyone knows. Just watch one of the Bovington Tank Museum’s Tank Chats because they cover it there. Google AI shows up for everyone. You should update your software.
A vehicle’s history and role play absolutely no part, nor is it relevant in any way to how it plays in a video game.
Appeal to emotion, common logic fallacy.
You want it to stay at a BR for a personal reason, that’s not how vehicle balance in War Thunder works.
I’ve explained and demonstrated numerous times now why it’s under-tiered, so I won’t go over it again.
Gaijin often forgets about vehicles that aren’t played as often, that doesn’t validate your argument.
Oversight =/= Correct BR.
The three M46’s on average have some of the best stats of any medium tank at and around their BR according to Statshark.
Countless vehicles with significantly worse stats have ended up being up-tiered by Gaijin in the past.
I’ve not made a single (incorrect) statement/exaggeration in regards to the M46.
I even made factual and objective comparisons to vehicles at higher BR’s. If you disagree with those comparisons, feel free to reference the stats in-game for yourself.
Meh, Kedrigern’s comment seemed applicable to the conversation I was having, but only in so far that it both happened to be about (vehicle) comparisons.
But yes, I do indeed remember Alvis can be quite… set in his ways.
It is more the fact that Alvis (regardless of whether right or wrong on any particular subject) has an extremely improductive way of argumentation that is almost entirely based on cheap “gotchas”. Makes it really hard to have an actual linear conversation with em.
