Not any, but I’d say in a 1v1… yes absolutely. If you stack the odds in the F1’s favor of course it has a high chance of winning
My point is, the su-25 is a better dogfighter. Ofcourse the F-1C will dictate the fight because he can easily run, but eventually the fight will end up being head-ons non stop.
I never mentioned the r73, I was talking about the base su25 clean vs a F1C. But now that you mentioned it, what you said also applies the exact way around against the F1C, only that the Su-25 also has better dogfight performance to launch it at the F1C rear, and even more countermeasures. Both missiles are gate-width IRCCM so that’s a mott point.
What would these possibilities be? Please describe them to me.
I don’t know what you’re referring to
I will rephrase my question…
Considering both players have the same skill level, and that they are in a conventional air rb match, in an occasional encounter between a j7e (11.3) and a mirage f1c (12.0), as long as both don’t make serious mistakes, would j7e defeat mirage in any scenario?
I don’t try to make definitive statements, I have only said that the Mirage F1 is in no situation to have a guaranteed win regardless of circumstance
but over all, the advantages and disadvantages of the most diverse scenarios, give a static advantage to the mirage f1c(12.0) or the j7e(11.3) ?
J-7E holds the advantage, assuming the “equal skill” pilots are both decent pilots that both know how to flare missiles.
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Not run, reverse using vertical maneuvers that Su-25 is physically incapable of doing, especially since Su-25T’s sustained turn rate is not that of Su-25K’s.
In-fact, here it is: ~15 deg per second, slightly better than F-1C’s 13.6 degrees per second.
Standard Su-25 can’t win cause R-60Ms ain’t hitting F-1C ever
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Probabilistically speaking then, would j7e (11.3) in a random encounter against f1c (12.0) win most of the encounters?
Why are you asking all of these questions?
to understand your logic
repeating my question that was not answered;
Probabilistically speaking then, would j7e (11.3) in a random encounter against f1c (12.0) win most of the encounters?
I cannot say. I will say the only thing the J-7E needs to know to win that is how to flare the Magic 2
Undoubtedly yes. The J7E only needs to flare in the headon and then will win 100/100 times
I’m going to take it as a “yep” based on this answer…but correct me if I’m wrong or misinterpreted things
Considering everything that has been said by @USA_PilotsAreBad and @HighRiskNoReward
Nothing more fair than changing the topics of discussion a little.
if j7e would beat f1c statistically/probabilistically speaking…
Just as f4s would dictate combat in any scenario against f1c
t
The problem is not in mirage f1c 12.0
The problem is other planes, because the mirage f1c is an extremely consistent plane for its BR.
We can’t lower the mirage f1c to 11.7 for compression reasons, an f5c(10.7) or j35xs won’t be able to handle it.
Therefore, nothing more fair than making the following proposition;
First we would give all aspect missiles to the je7 like the pl5C for balance reasons and increase its BR to 12.0 or 12.3 (like the jh7).
Secondly, they would increase the BR of the f4s to 12.3 because it is a comfortable BR, you still continue to get the 13.0 and 13.3 with fox3 you will still face f16, mig29 and f15 and mirage 2000, however it will fall less against 12.0-11.0 decompressing these BRS.
Thus improving the performance and match ups of the mirage f1c, without compressing BR and without radical changes.
right?
is that fair enough?
Am I being unrealistic, hypocritical or demagogic with this proposition?
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I never asked for a BR reduction, if you see my initial comment I am saying the F1C deserves to be 12.0 and is well-balanced there. All I did after that was addressing some misconceptions about it or its peers.
But do you think my proposal is reasonable?
Decompression would fix a lot of problems, but that won’t happen anytime soon, and when it does it will eventually get worse again. Such is gaijin
j7e is fine as it is at 11.3, adding pl5c and a br raise will probably put it into a worse position since those only work well at rear aspect and short range anyway and it will face more and better radar missile platforms.
F4S to 12.3 yes please. (could receive aim9L to make it on par with the ej kai)
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but there we have an inconsistency with everything that has been discussed so far, his br range is 10.3-11.3.
if we establish that f1c is a well-placed 12.0 and that je7 being 11.3 can beat him because he has an advantage in most scenarios.
we can’t say he’s well placed in 11.3.
these two statements are paradoxical and cannot coexist.
If the j7e receives all aspect missiles and has the same BR as the f1c it becomes the new top dog of 12.0 and decompresses 10.3-11.3