Thanks for the information.
So it got bumped from ~2.6 to ~3km, not bad.
I am talking about RB, where on min fuel your STR speed is at around 615 km/h with wings fully swept forward.
I’m not certain that it would out-rate the F-16 at those speeds, but maybe if the F-16 has more fuel and payload still. I would need to test… regardless we have a MiG-23 or F-16 thread for this…
The Mirage 2000 isn’t much of a rate fighter, but it sits inside the turn circle of the MiG-23 all day long.
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Again, assuming RB controls, you are stuck with whatever the instructor pulls and the rate it converges to. I don’t remember the exact times, but the MLA finishes a circle about 1 - 2 seconds faster than the F-16 Block 15, while both are on min fuel (12 min for F-16, 9 min for MLA). You can even strap on an R-24 or a fuel tank on the MLA and it will still dust the F-16 in a rate fight in a duel (the only problem being the much larger turning circle of the MLA, making it difficult to set up a shot).
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Finishing the circle a few seconds quicker doesn’t mean it will beat it in the rate fight. If the F-16 can turn tighter and slightly offsets the circle, MiG-23 won’t get guns on.
I mean, if we talk strictly about the performance metric that is turn rate, the MLA wins. In a dogfight, with sufficient skill, you can counter the offset circles (relaxing turns, flying lag pursuit, etc.). Using it in tournament 1v1s, the rating performance gap is just so big. Most of the time you just need to rate and make sure your flight paths don’t cross, to prevent a reversal / close-in overshoot. And when you do overshoot, the MLA rates so fast that a lot of opponents can’t even capitalize on it.
This is not to say that getting an actual firing solution is easy in that engagement, but at the very least you prevent the enemy from getting one, and in the case of facing F-16s when both of you are on min fuel, they run dry before you do.
I have won against opponents I would normally not win at my skill level and only lost to guys that were much much stronger than me.
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I have a hard time believing that, guess I’ll have to test it myself tonight.
A supersonic chase?! Why let me go ahead and start sweet. Your paying me SL if they don’t! lol
I haven’t played the MLA in ages but that MLA had a vicious turn rate iirc. I am going to play it now.
please point out where I stated that this is the performance achieved in a supersonic chase.
A supersonic chase?!
Omg… so are you talking about subsonic only? Just about every short range IR missile outside the SRAAM and especially at top tier can hit someone in a subsonic chase at 3km+.
Who cares about subsonic chases. Supersonic chases is where the money is at and where the Magic II falls behind the other top missiles.
I believe they are held back while we are out ranged, outgunned by aircraft carrying 2-4 more longer ranged air intercept missiles.
I’ve actually done testing, from rear aspect this doesn’t seem to be the case.
There are a few that can, notably the R-27T, Python 3, and AIM-9L (maybe?)… Also maybe R-73 but it has some weird PID issues rn that cause it to burn energy.
I havent played the Magic II as much recently, but you are not ever going to get the same rear aspect range against a supersonic opponent anywhere near the same ranges as the Aim9L/M and R73, Aim9H/G, R27T, R24T, PL-8 & Python 3.
I’ve done testing too and have game play recordings.
I can jump in a game right now and show you a 3.5km kill in the R73 if you like. It supposed to have more energy? Good lord. I thought its a 2.5 max missile so it can retain its high maneuverability?
I’m not arguing about that, but if 3km is the magical number, there are select few who can make it. Idk why that’s the expectation though.
As you said, effective range matters more.
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Oh, well I think its less. more like 2-2.5km if you can investigate further please do. Its the one missile I have to be quite literally on an opponent’s ass at top tier. As you know everyone is flying supersonic and dogfighting near supersonic.
Especially the Block 50s. So as good as the magic is in acceleration off the rail and IRCCM which is lovely. It has got no range on the stealthy aim9M and carrying less on the M2k 9 times out of 10, The M2k is at a disadvantage.
very very nice
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Currently, in rear aspect, in game, the magic 2 has about the range of the r73. That is, because the R73 loses all of its energy due to the oscillations of the PID system. I have managed 2.5km rear aspect shots against a target going about mach1, and 3km I totally possible in subsonic. 3.5km seems to be the longest shots you can do against slower aircrafts
Thank you, but you still have not confirmed whether 3.0km+ is possible like the Aim9L,M, H and G. R73, R24 & Pl5C and 8/python.
I know for a fact they are not capable of ranges in a Mach chase as the mentioned missiles. Why is this a question?
Oh definitely. The magic 2 still is amongst the shortest range IR missile, especially at top tier. The r60 is the only worst one on that aspect
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yeah isnt the Magic II IRL better than that?