Mirage 2000 Thread : Variants, performance, characteristics and sources

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
5178

The problem is not CM’s,… it just that Mirage F1 isn’t able to dogfight any of the 11.0 guys, apart F-4’s and F-104’s,…

You’ll have more trouble aligning anyone to gives Magic-1 a good launch condition,…

Therefore, you will rely on SARH which again → can’t LDSD (MTI don’t allow that, it’s only giving a See-through-Ground-clutter function // only LD) → basically Radar missiles are only capable of shooting higher target, which also reduce range, going from that S.530F 25km lock range to 20km or even 15km for good launch conditions.

Yet that’s why AIM-7E’s are still better as it can easily reach their 25G in at terminal guidance, while S.530F asthmatic 20G is limited at long range aswell as having poor acceleration of the missile, making it hard to use, as you need to fire 1st, when you can’t

So for Mirage F.1 to be well placed due to it’s best SARH (2 missiles out of 5) you’ll need to be equal/under 10.7 BR to be equivalent.
Which is not possible as you still have lot of CM and 5 missiles(2 of which are Magic-1+R.530+2 S.530F), while Mirage 3E doesn’t have that → that’s why Mirage F.1 would remain at best 11.0 with basically less kill ability(no more Magic-2), as it can’t be 10.7 where it would horribly compress the 9.7-10.0 aircrafts which are mostly having low amount of CM, and no equivalent missiles.
(As reminder before Magic-2 was introduced the aircraft was already balanced from 11.0 to 11.3 because having more missile than Mirage 3E[3 missile], regarless of F-4’s having 8)

Therefore, you’ll have a not so fast F-104 like aircraft, boring and unable to dogfight anything on it’s own and stuck to go for 25km straight runs, hitting aircraft of Lower BR.

I don’t say that you(directly you) are unable to play it, like described above in full-uptier, but i’m also thinking/aware of all those newbies that doesn’t know anything and never adapt to their aircrafts

The Magic-1/Magic-2 comparison as nothing to help you either, i don’t know if you played some Mirage 3E lately, but Magic-1 have little to 0 Flare rejection at 10.7 already, and makes it tricky to play therefore hard to play for the “newbie” part of the community (basically 70% of community)

Having no more Magic-2 is only going to kill the aircraft gameplay wise, unless you wanted a Ground supporting Fighter to limit your amount SP point in Ground Battle.

5179

F4E at this BR don’t have any PD mode at all. The 7E2 is almost impossible to use in normal condition. The 4E has to almost exlusively rely on gun and IR missile kills. The F1C is a far better aircraft than it.

Mig23M is a joke with 12 countermeasures.

J35XS doesn’t even have RWR.

F5 variants don’t have SARH and a barely working radar.

11.3 with Magic 1 is perfectly fair for the F1 and would make it much better than currently.

5180

as the Mirage F.1’s on that part,… as said earlier:

and you only have 2 of those.

(and no, i still disagree,… go try a Mirage F.C with only Magic-1 and S.530F, and you’ll see trhough painful experience)
Also, F-4 is heavier that F.1, but can largely out-rates the Mirage F.1 in both Climb and turn rates, when loaded full AAM only, or not.

5181

Arcade flight model is now considered fixed.
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4 Likes
5182

I aced with one the other day no problems, fly low and bring only flares. R-23R is still great.

5183

Is it tho?

5184

nothing seems to have changed in the live server, maybe it’s in the dev server ?

5185

Will be fixed once the new update is live.

6 Likes
5186

when it’s dev server season, don’t expect any non game breaking bugs to be implemented before new update drops, generally. The update will come Tuesday I think so the wait is short

5187

I stumble upon WT Data Project and I find it quietly surprised to see that Mirage 2000-5F is the most competititve aircraft in its BR Range according to WT Data Project. Eventhough we know that Mirage 2000 still in its gimped form (ahistorical loadout, countermeasure, not accurate FM, etc), it still being one of most competitive aircraft makes me love how the community of this forum always try to make Mirage 2000 futureproof.

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6 Likes
5188

There is also a community differences.

Most Mirage 2000 players knows how to adapt and play aircraft accordingly.

Most US and Russian however, they only go into a fight and get shot for no kills done.

So those Data only shows were most newbies are.

3 Likes
5189

it also shows how the worst F-15 has the best kill stats of them all…

it really just shows the difference in player skill across the tech trees

1 Like
5190

M2k-5F has the best winrates at top tier, so no need for MICA EM or countermeasures buff /s - Gaijin probably

5 Likes
5191

Alao this graph is also why I don’t think Eurofighter or Rafale will come this December, the current European countries that could get Eurofighter and Rafale are the ones doing the “best” besides Germany, due to Gripen and M2K. The rest of the countries are suffering and need a viable competitor to M2K/Gripen (even though I think F-15C/J and F-16C are competitive enough as it is).

5 Likes
5192

The Imp’ Baz is really interesting to me, functionally its a less complex to operate F-15C. So if you compare it to another minor nation like Japan. The F-15J(M) has TWS and the ability to multi-launch AMRAAM, as well as a very good IR missile in the form of AAM-3.

Yet the more simple Imp’ Baz is winning way more often. I know correlation isn’t causation but the least complex to operate F-15C performing the best really shows that workload is really impactful on pilot performance.

9 Likes
5193

I think it may be that overall you see more experienced players playing Israel and American players are well… American players. More skill = more reward i guess.

2 Likes
5194

I can’t think of how multi-launch TWS would be any harder to operate than the single launch currently of the Baz. Perhaps people are just more likely to grind Israel as a second nation than first for example.

1 Like
5195

Gunjob was referencing the Japanese F-15J though, which is considered a minor nation.

5196

Yeah, if anything the Mesh is harder due to also lacking radar slaving HMD so if you want to shoot somewhat off bore you have to change your ACM scan position.

5197

But F-15J(M) vs Imp’ Baz, both minor nations. I’d say the ability to slave radar to the HMD is clearly not as impactful as slaving IR missiles to it. Focusing on STT for AMRAAM launches also appears to net more kills.

You say this but I use the different ACM patterns with Tornado with very limited impact on workload. I can also keep using mouse aim for flying as well. So if anything I’m only concerned with my planes attitude and course without a HMD for radar slaving. Were as in contrast with Gripen as I’m using the mouse aim for both and as a result the flying is less like I’d want it to be, in order to use the HMD.

Maybe you’re more likely to be increasingly selective in your launches? When in TWS I’m often looking at other potential targets other than my highlighted target. With Imp’ Baz you’re doing alot of that much earlier in your escalation chain. As you don’t have information like target velocity or heading until you’ve committed to a STT.