impressive that it got acknowledged in 6 hours ^^
2 Likes
Passed reports:
Missing AoA indicator and clock on Mirage 2000-5F HUD // Gaijin.net // Issues
Thanks to @Pandemonica__
Mirage 2000s wrong flares release pattern // Gaijin.net // Issues
Thanks to @Zayf
28 Likes
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/1qgv9O2lTJQL
Incorrect visual model of Eclair-M
Now that devs are configuring aircrafts to have countermeasures by what is visually shown, it is more important to have the visual model corrected.
The circled red box should be of a 3 by 6 row of regular caliber instead of a 2x4 large caliber
14 Likes
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/vMNJYQ2jbACd
Mirage 2000-5F should only have 6 air to air missiles in total.
6 Likes
Oh boy, is this really true?
It’s totally my opinion but i think it always was a way to balance the mirage the way they gave it 2 magic with 6 mica.
With that it will really make mirage fall high from how good it was with 8 missiles, especially when every other aircraft at 13.7 br have mostly 8 missiles and that mica really is good only as close range when 50% of the kills of the game will be with aim120, it would clearly make the belgium f16 way better than him.
Only 6 mica is both too weak for 13.7 and still too strong for 13.3.
Top tier air is already not the funniest thing but now will just make things even worst, magic 2 was really handy in some situation as the way the mica can behave even at close range (even at 10km had a weird encounter where somehow mica failed to hit when the target couldn’t hide as the su27 was too high and didn’t turn that much while i had an hard lock on him and yeah i launched my missile with way enough speed)
I had so much bad times that it was way easier for me to grind the air event and fight fox 3 with mirage 4000 than with 2000-5f.
What i mean is that i love my mica but even in the situation it’s supposed to be a beast it can really dissapoint when even magic 2 that at times just don’t have enough energy to follow target/go for flare for some reason will still 75% of the time do his job.
It’s already quite restricted to use thr mica but now it will be terrible with no magic 2 as backup.
I totally respect your opinion and understand you want the games to be as realistic as possible, and thanks you again for taking so much time to do those reports.
I don’t have that much against reports like that which downgrade the vehicle slightly but it’s probably the first one i really care a bit.
Sorry in advance.
7 Likes
I completely agree, one thing with the 2K-5F is that part of it is held up simply by its missiles, having the 2 backup Magic’s can come in handy when the MICA’s fall flat (im saying this despite the fact i dont like the Magic II that much), but having them even though they are only two missiles makes the jet more balanced in the BR.
1 Like
Over all I prefer the irl coolfactor with 6 mica + 2 underwing drop tanks instead of 6 mica + 2 magic. Its also not like mirage 2000 will suddenly struggle with 6 missiles when most of the top tier carry the exact same amount of missiles (F-16, JAS39, MiG-29). Of course we have some exceptions with heavy air superiority fighters such as F-15 and Su-27 but these are heavy fighters for a reason while Mirage has always been a light fighter.
Also worth noting is that current Mirage 2000-5F surpasses early Rafales in capabilities so toning it down a little would give more meaning to future development jump to Rafales.
2 Likes
Probably when the MICA IR arrived in Live Server, they would remove the Magic II compability with 6 MICA. I guess this is why now they still keep several Mirage 2000 historical capabilities because from what I see, the balancing factor is how the average top tier aircraft perform, this is why F-15 still don’t have its 20% Missing Thrust, and Su-27 still aren’t supermaneuverable.
A lot of people would really disagree with this, again this is based from my “Vibe” on War Thunder balancing.
Because, I’d remember when the -5F is literally don’t have any much different than the C-S5, one of its redeeming factor to be unique is it can carry gunpod without added weight into it, just like the D Variant. But it was patched out when -5F got its 4 Magic II, iirc.
1 Like
Yeah, add MICA -IR and put 13.7 ^^"
While having no Rafale in the meantime.(sad part but will be tru by the way Gaijin act over frenchies, always being last in everything)
1 Like
Too many posts here for me to reply individually, so I’ll just reply to the general points that had been made.
Yes, it’ll suck having the 530D pylons removed for air to air usage especially with how the current MICA and Magic 2s are modeled. I have asked for reports on the MICA’s range and the missing countermeasures to be implemented alongside the reduced missile counts rather than just reducing the missile count and ignoring other historical reports.
However, the current implementation of the Mirage 2000-5F has always been problematic as it left little room for the early Rafales as @Texas_Engineer_Mike pointed out.
The Rafale F1 lacks OSF/IRST, has less countermeasures than M2K, has only 6 missiles and no air to ground capabilities.
For the Mirage 2000-5F to outclass it by already having MAWS, 8 missiles, air-to-ground capabilities and more countermeasures leaves little room for such an addition.
This does a disservice to the Rafale and the M2K both.
I would keep in mind that the M2K-5F still has many areas where it can be improved on in order to keep it competitive. Most players do not regard the Su-27SM as better than the Gripen for example even though Gripen cannot carry 6 fox-3s, so there’s ways to be more competitive outside of missile counts.
13 Likes
They don’t know that the R-73 & Magic 2 are underperforming in IRCCM simply because the iFoV used is arbitrary from the devs for balance currently. @k_stepanovich wasn’t even aware that there were missiles with lower FoV’s when he made the excuse that it was a game limitation rather than them just intentionally nerfing the missiles. Previously he had claimed that the R-73 had superior IRCCM to the AIM-9M.
Anyhow, correcting the current fox-2’s would probably ruin some balancing we have currently. (Cough cough, Mirage F1)…
Mirage F1’s should have only Magic 1 anyway. Its for the better for both Mirage players and their enemies
Not only that, but that IFOV as it works right now operates as “reduce FoV after missile has been launched” rather than reducing IFOV upon lock-on. So aircrafts with 200+ flares can immediately render these missiles useless by pre-flaring anytime a Magic 2 or R-73 carrier is within their vicinity or they’re near the combat area.
11 Likes
I’ve been told it is an unusual request for a missile to be removed from an aircraft after it has been implemented onto the live server. That it has never been done before. Makes the matter even more complicated that the Mirage F1 premium has Magic 2s.
1 Like
no,… Mirage F1 not having Magic-2 would then be stuck at 11.0/10.7, were Mirage 3E is already a better choice,…
Mirage F1 having Magic-2 makes it a 12.0 aircraft and it’s basically fine at that area of the game,… fighting aircraft with Enough Flare numbers.
Flight model wise, Mirage F1 is tough for new players, but seasonned ones are capable of doing good stuff.
That isn’t true, the F1 has an MTI radar with up to three radar homing missiles and a lot more countermeasures. There is a tradeoff, and it is good to have variety.
3 Likes
MTI doesn’t help guiding S.530F
S.530F barely are on par with similar AIM-7E2
R.530E is my usual secondary missile as you can fake a Magic-2 launch ^^
but usually, Mirage F1 is outclassed by the 12.3 AIM-7F and 13.0 AIM-7M,…
yet, having it fighting lower BR with only Magic-1 will only makes it painful to play.
1 Like
Remove the Magic 2 and suddenly the SARH ordnance is on par with other aircraft. Look at the MiG-23M’s R-23R at 11.3, it is on par or inferior to the Super 530F.
Moving it to a lower BR such as 11.3 with magic 1 will make it on par with most other 11.3 aircraft and enjoyable to play. Unlike the MiG-23M it has hundreds of CM’s.
I honestly don’t know where you get that notion that it would suffer.
1 Like
The problem is not CM’s,… it just that Mirage F1 isn’t able to dogfight any of the 11.0 guys, apart F-4’s and F-104’s,…
You’ll have more trouble aligning anyone to gives Magic-1 a good launch condition,…
Therefore, you will rely on SARH which again → can’t LDSD (MTI don’t allow that, it’s only giving a See-through-Ground-clutter function // only LD) → basically Radar missiles are only capable of shooting higher target, which also reduce range, going from that S.530F 25km lock range to 20km or even 15km for good launch conditions.
Yet that’s why AIM-7E’s are still better as it can easily reach their 25G in at terminal guidance, while S.530F asthmatic 20G is limited at long range aswell as having poor acceleration of the missile, making it hard to use, as you need to fire 1st, when you can’t
So for Mirage F.1 to be well placed due to it’s best SARH (2 missiles out of 5) you’ll need to be equal/under 10.7 BR to be equivalent.
Which is not possible as you still have lot of CM and 5 missiles(2 of which are Magic-1+R.530+2 S.530F), while Mirage 3E doesn’t have that → that’s why Mirage F.1 would remain at best 11.0 with basically less kill ability(no more Magic-2), as it can’t be 10.7 where it would horribly compress the 9.7-10.0 aircrafts which are mostly having low amount of CM, and no equivalent missiles.
(As reminder before Magic-2 was introduced the aircraft was already balanced from 11.0 to 11.3 because having more missile than Mirage 3E[3 missile], regarless of F-4’s having 8)
Therefore, you’ll have a not so fast F-104 like aircraft, boring and unable to dogfight anything on it’s own and stuck to go for 25km straight runs, hitting aircraft of Lower BR.
I don’t say that you(directly you) are unable to play it, like described above in full-uptier, but i’m also thinking/aware of all those newbies that doesn’t know anything and never adapt to their aircrafts
The Magic-1/Magic-2 comparison as nothing to help you either, i don’t know if you played some Mirage 3E lately, but Magic-1 have little to 0 Flare rejection at 10.7 already, and makes it tricky to play therefore hard to play for the “newbie” part of the community (basically 70% of community)
Having no more Magic-2 is only going to kill the aircraft gameplay wise, unless you wanted a Ground supporting Fighter to limit your amount SP point in Ground Battle.