Unfortunately im not author of the following:
Only advantage AMRAAMs have over MICA is range. It doesnt take university educated PhD to figure out that if you would buff better manuevering missile out of the two in a way that removes the range advantage, the better manuevering missile would end up being better.
Better seeker too
And if we assume it’s not an AIM-120D there’s also the lack of launch limitations which is probably the biggest game-changer between various Fox-3s nowadays since most got pull buffed
You are a bit silly.
In the end shooting first with longer ranged missiles on range while carrying more missiles allows you to go on the offensive, to put pressure on the enemy.
A victory is rather likely then.
Which is why range matters a lot.
Which factor ends up being decisive depends on the preferrd playstyle, teams, positiining and who is getting jumped by whom in which angles and ranges.
Short range MICA is of course the best as I said previously.
Since you would have to be death and blind to die to long range shot, all the long range shots do is putting pressure on the enemy.
Putting pressure is usually done in order to get closer to the enemy.
Last thing you want to when fighting MICA carrier is to get closer.
If MICA had exact range of AMRAAM, obviously Rafale would do better since MICA would be THE best missile in game, effective at all ranges.
At longer ranges it’s very easy to just notch missiles instead of shooting back
It’s only within 10-15km where you actually need to shoot back (10km if you’re more skilled)
This is where the long range argument falls apart because any competent player just, notches 1.3s and will force the close fight anyways.
I regularly do this even with stuff like the MiG-35 where I don’t launch at the enemy until I get to 5-7km distance where I will then shoot a missile
Or in normal scenarios 12km on average as well
This is why the rafale was so damn handholdy before these missile buffs.
It had the best missile and a stupid god-tier FM that let it get away with anything as well as unique seeker (because it totally needed the better seeker)
You could just get close and fiddle literally anything you fought with little effort.
If the rafale never had MICA (and had AMRAAM instead)nit would have been nowhere near as strong as it was.
On the other hand if you had given the euro the MICA it would have also been significantly more dominant.
And there is a point were you are not to close while still being the offensive.
It is true Rafale plays the same and has a easier time getting closer by defending and shooting while in the notch but it will always be outranged other aircraft can also shoot launch while notching and it is quite likely that one or two missiles will hute while the range is being bridged by both players.
If you get to close MICA will pull ahead, assuming the Rafale has enough of them left.
M2K-5 is not Rafale however amd carried 2 missiles less.
MICA can be the decicive favtor but not in all scenarios. It’s superiority is situational.
If you shoot this late chances are both will die.
I also try to get close especially if i don’t have AIM-120 or R-77-1 or R-27ER but where it doesn’t seem possible I try to walk my way in so to speak.
Especially if you are not Rafale or SU-30SM2 you need to attack or fight back early.
And yes you can noth but then you will be defensive.
In the starting phase of the match you can do that or even go cold.
Later on you might just delay the inevitable.
Not really considering my success with the MiG-35 lmfao
That is not a good argument in this case.
Especially since I never denied that it can be efficient.
Earlier on you were the one denying efficiency arguments…
By dispensing ridicule no less.
An extremely narrow window between 15-20km.
Which still takes what, 10-15 seconds to impact?
Which isnt all that important for actually killing the target.
R-77/77-1s sure, but certainly not pre-buff AMRAAMs. Anything but leading the missile perfectly would make amraam burn 90% of its speed and energy just trying to point its nose at the target.
Sure, M2K-5 isnt rafale and no one claims it to be.
However it still has the exact same MICAs.
Id pay good money for OP to go against M2K-5 in any 12.7 of his choice and win (since its the OP that proposed 13.7 for it in the first place).
True, but if the situations where it is superior account for 80% of all situations where killing actually does happen, i think its silly to imply AMRAAMs are the better missile due to range.
I don’t think it’s 80% and the window you mention is bigger in my experience.
Perhaps we play differently.
I think a 12.7 would lose to F-15C or SU-27SM or even MiG-29SMT just as badly.
Which was why I originally said I would support the placement of M2K-5 at 13.7. If it stays at 14.0 it would certainly not be a catastrophy but I think 13.7 would not be out out this world because 13.0+ face it anyway while 12.7 will get clapped by any Fox-3 to begin with.
AMRAAM certainly does struggle if launched from a notch. I never said AMRAAM was better.
It is better at longer ranges while MICA is the best on short ranges.
Well, pre-buff amraams definitely not
But for overall scenarios the 120D is better due to it having good pull now and no launch limits paired with range
However, MICA is still on top in close range fights easily.
120D is just more universal
(In a 1v1 between a 120D slinger and AMRAAM slinger flown by good pilots the 120 slinger has a really hard time)
Is this justification for the Mirage to go down? God no.
Mirage only sees 120C-5 at the same br.
Which the MICA is still better than due to aforementioned launch limits
Any 13.7 that isn’t a 27SM would do
They’d just get ganked unless they can force a df which isn’t exactly easy unless you rely on multipath.
Which is now just a gamble
I think it really is the Br bracket we should look at as a whole.
In a uptier M2K-5 is not as strong as it might be if it only saw 14.0/13.7.
I still stand by the point that the lone 12.7 will struggle against any FOX-3.
Im basing it on the fact that anything further than 20km takes more than 20 seconds to impact target.
That doesnt matter against average player as ive seen people in 14.7 jets die to Fakours launched at 50km, but against anything but such flesh homonculi, ie. Against player who doesnt think RWR is just a decoration, it is enough time to enter notch.
Possibly but if i were to pick one to fight in my 18C early, it wouldnt be M2K-5, followed by 27SM.
No but you heavily implied range matters more than close range performance, which is what i had problem with.
Precisely. But i would rather try my luck in dogfight against 15C than agains M2K-5.
I only said range matters a lot. Since even if the enemy pays attention to RWR some only start picking up the missile on shorter ranges.
Even if that is not the case and one defends you are on the backfoot.
Sure that doesn’t have to mean you already lost but it is a disadvantage that can not reliably be overcome.
If you suddenly appear from the side with MICA the enemy will of course be at a extreme disadvantage.
Even the F-5 with AIM-120 could be dangerous.^^
I also try to get close if possible to increase the chance for a guaranteed kill if I carry MICA, the base R-77 or even Derby but I am not guaranteed to get that close and against decent players or multiple oppoments you have to start launching early while keeping the pressure up.
When MICA and Rafale were new there was more short range engagements to boot if memory serves.
??? Mica is good after the 30km target, I don’t understand the complaint. Firing missiles at ranges of over 30 km / 20 km is just a waste of missiles. Missiles only kill those who don’t know what they’re doing.
The Mica is clearly superior to the AIM-120 in every respect ( Less range only ) that’s a nonsensical argument. Furthermore, the Mirage 5F still has MAW, an excellent amount of countermeasures, and its radar isn’t terrible. The Mirage 2000 5F is clearly a 14.0 aircraft.
How on earth do you expect a plane like the Mirage 2000 5F to be strong in an uptier match against Rafales, EuroFighters and the orthers? But now the question is when you’re in a down-tier match, what’s the Mirage 5F? Simply broken.
🤷
For 2 years or so atp the best Fox-3 slingers had better close range performance.
When we got the new missile buffs 90% of people praised the pull buffs, not range.
The best players in the game prioritized close-medium range performance
The only people dying to 15-20km+ launches have always been people who are pretty clueless
This did not change with the missile buffs.
Close range still matters more.
Crazy
Now replace “M2K-5” with the name of any plane
And replace the brs with relevant ones for the plane
The uptier argument doesn’t work because it applies to every vehicle