for… half a second.
People can see and react to half a second of aoa pull?
Still useful when everyone at and lower doesn’t have it at all. There’s even an HMD-less F-18 at your BR. Why don’t you ask that plane how it feels about off-bore shots?
Genuinely, if micas are so washed, fallen off or whatever, why are all missile tournament duelists still use them over all other planes? Almost like the advantages MICAs bring to the table beats the cons.
in the “for a half a second” a Mig29K can do exactly the same flick and launch the missile, the gimbal on the 5F is not so generous you can do it unnoticed against player that has thumbs. 60 degree vertical and horizontal limit is just 5 degree more generous than R77’s 55 degree launch limit. And 29K has much better energy retention and FM to recover from any high AoA flick.
The high skill celling jousts are not as simple as “i have MICA i win” after the recent Fox3 buffs.
R-77s have launch limits. You have to fire those missiles outside of the notch while M2k can pull right back into defensive position.
Not my issue you can’t utilize the whole point of micas, being able to pull into the defensive right before launch.
It also has worse missiles and worse defensive suite (less cms, no maws).
You keep glazing over the fact that 1. even MICA got buffed and 2. It’s still the fastest, hardest turning, and hardest to defeat close range arh in game.
The mica alone is an advantage. Not only do I not have to open myself as much to fire them (because they have no launch limit), they force the opponent to defend harder relative to me (because it requires more chaff to defeat in a notch). I also have more time to defend below 20km because guess what? it’s also the fastest close range arh missile.
We are not talking sterile duels, we are talking about dynamic EC environment, where other things than just raw performance in one dimension matter. I did argue that 5F airframe and avionics do leave some things to desire. And the current state of Fox 3’s does not give MICA wide enough margin to justify the 0.3 BR hop.
Doesn’t change anything. If players who are way better and fight each other for money choose to play micas over any other missiles, its a sign.
Because you glazed over every single advantage MICA has and act like it has nothing?
You keep ignoring that
“why is the plane that carries objectively better missiles at a higher br?” You can hold the opinion that these factors don’t matter as much to you, but these are objective advantages MICA has.
and for the r77 you need to pull in way more than the mica since the r77 is limited to 60° gimbal
(might have been 55° dont remeber anymore)
wheras it is 70° on the M2k with the Mica, ignoring TRK MEM
That is fallacy, you have to get the track, at best, you have 5 degree advantage. Shooting deep from defensive in mem track is your decision, its is not advantage.
It requires exactly 1 chaff to defeat, as any other ARH missiles in game, if you are notching properly. Micas are not magic, they have marginally better angle gate that is defeated by vertical notching the same as any other. What I argue is harder to defeat, are 120D’s paired with good AESA, as good datalink with small IOG drift can help your missile to reacquire, but this is outside the scope of this.
10 degrees (up to 40 with TRK mem) is way more than “5”
Lie of the century? If you only chaff once the angle gate would literally just ignore the chaff through IOG?
1.5x the chaff required to notch isn’t “marginal”
Oh, you mean planes at a higher BR? You know, planes that are supposed to be better than the M2k to begin with?
at the worst you have a 15° advatage over the r77 with the mica
since the r77 has a 55° gimbal limit
and that difference is only going to be higher with trk mem
Bro, I am not going to argue about notching and chaffing mechanics, against the ground, I can get rid of mica without chaff at all with pure notch.
I am not going to argue with person who don’t understand how PD seekers work, and think that chaff has any other function than confuse the seeker when it goes from PD to non PD mode when there is no ground clutter nearby to help.
Micas are defeated as easily as any other missile in game if you have half a clue what you are doing. Short range HOBS launches can be harder or EASIER depending what aspect they are launched from. I can hand have forced merges against 5F’s and rafales despite them spamming micas at me at any ranges.
Before the patch, MICA was so much ahead of the curve in close range pull, that often you did not even try to joust, you just forced merge, so yeah, I do have some experience in it.
Now, most things with HMD’s can actually fight back and force 5F defensive for long enough gain better angles, but forcing merge is still a thing.
Its the BR where Sim 5F live 3/4 BR rotations, so yeah.
oh no
my mig23 isnt as good as the f14a when i decide to play it in the 12.3 bracket
Which requires you to be at an altitude disadvantage, a huge nono even in arb?
Guy who think he can one chaff micas:
It can be defeated like any other arh, but the difficulty isn’t the same. You don’t see people walking around saying Micas are just as easy to notch as AIM-54As now do you?
And it still does after the the patch, and its fov advantage still exists. The pull game may be closer now, but MICAs also got buffed, something you conveniently also ignore
Again, like I said:
wait until he finds out about the 14.3s that always faces 14.7s regardless of cycle
PooBit vs SM2 very balans
They got buffed, and in return they became unstable and now have non 0 chance to spin out.
What they got in return, most launches the mica landed before this “buff”, but now the engine burns out faster and makes mica pull less. MICA had already close to R73 performance and no risk of spinning, now they have bit better than R73 performance but risk of spinning. What shots that old MICA missed, does new MICA hits? When it engine burn faster and the TVC advantage goes with the burn?
In short, the jury is still very much out, on how much better, if at all, for actual practical EC missile joust cases the new and improved MICA is. However, there is very much hard, in stone, data of how much the new and improved 120, PL12, R77’s do compared the old variants.
Old MICA was already more or less perfection at short ranges, anything shorter and its merge and gunfight.
The advantage the “new buffed” MICA brings to tired old 5F’s airframe does not justify it being 0.3 BR apart from many planes sitting in 13.7. Bringing them up to 14.0 or bringing 5F down, both can work.
So does any TVC before this patch? Sounds like you’ve been stalling out more then blaming the missile.
But you ignore other “hard, in stone” facts, like the better seeker.
Like I said:
I am not disputing that MICA has any of these… advantages. I, again, am arguing that they do not carry the 5F airframe as hard as they used to, compared to its competition.
Please re read:
And even the 5F airframe. I don’t understand the whole “12.3 airframe argument”. Every 12.3+ F-16 are either equal, side grade or worse than the 12.3 F-16A. The F-15C is worse fm than the F-15A. Again, not unique to M2k
That are have been chipped away by recent fox3 changes.
Or are you arguing that current MICA has MORE advantages at short ranges to its current contemporaries, compared the old MICA to its contemporaries?
Let’s check again:
so… yes? One of these factors may be diminished but clearly the advantage is still there.