The F-5C never historically had flares or chaff, yet it’s equipped with them in-game and nobody seems bothered by it. Not even the same purists who suddenly become champions of historical accuracy whenever the Milan is discussed.
Not true, this has ben discussed and lamented innumerable times.
There have been unhistorical descisions, but those should be the exception not the rule, and not an argument for yet more such descisions.
At least that’s my view, and that’s what I fight for. Strongest admittely in cases where I know enough about and where I have some emotional attachment.
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It’s actually been the topic of countless protests and complaints, I am myself opposed to it.
There’s also a difference between giving ahistorical flares to a 10.7 and a 9.7, the meta is completely different. No flares above 10.0 is a death sentence, which is why they did it.
Great, so can we finally stop pretending that War Thunder is a historically accurate game and admit that gameplay balance takes precedence over historical accuracy?
It isn’t completely but we’re trying to make it that as much possible.
The Milan also doesn’t need flares nearly as much as higher tier planes like the F-5C. And certainly not more than the F-4C, Mirage IIIC, J35D, F-104J, Shahak, etc. Just deal with it, it’s just not happening
The problem is that historical accuracy is often treated selectively. When the F-5C gets countermeasures it never had, balance is considered more important than history. When the Milan is discussed, suddenly history becomes the decisive argument. I don’t mind either approach, but I’d like to see the same standard applied consistently.
Did you read what we said? Many of us are against it. We’re not with it, there’s absolutely no inconsistency in our argumentation, you’re making it up.
And again, the situation isn’t the same either. Have you played 10.7? It’s raining R-60Ms at that BR… But at 10.0 and below, no flares really isn’t that bad.
I’m a Mirage IIIC player, I know the pain of not having flares. But do you see me whining about some rare premium that got an exception to the rule in order to be playable?
It’s starting to feel like you’re argumenting with imaginary people instead of us
My point is different though. War Thunder already contains numerous cases where gameplay considerations override historical accuracy. The F-5C is one example, regardless of whether you approve of it or not.
So the question isn’t whether exceptions should exist - they already do. The question is under what circumstances they are justified.
You argue that the F-5C needed an exception because otherwise it would be unplayable against the missile environment at its BR. That’s a balance argument, not a historical one. If balance can legitimately override history in one case, then it’s reasonable to discuss whether it should in other cases as well.
What I disagree with is treating historical accuracy as an absolute rule for one plane while acknowledging gameplay-based exception for another.
Sure, we’re just saying they should be as minimal as possible
Yes, the F-5C is an extreme case. Though tbh even on this one I find it stupid because with the crap missiles it has it could be a flareless 10.0 easily…
Also you’re talking about the F-5C, but I’m now remembering that I had a convo about it where someone showed that some F-5Cs did have countermeasures. So it might be more accurate to talk about the F-5A actually!
Alright then, let’s put down historical accuracy for a minute and talk balance. Let’s give the Milan flares, because why not. But then, what about the Mirage IIIC, the Mirage 5F, the F-8E(FN), the F-4C, the J35D (these two suffer pretty badly I’ve heard), the Shahak, the F1, the F-104J, and many more… They’d need flares too, no reason not to. And then, what about all the 9.7s that suffer in uptiers against good missiles? Let’s give them flares as well. Keep going and everyone suddenly has flares.
You gotta draw a line at who needs flares. The Milan sure has some trouble where it is, but it’s not nearly as bad as some others aircraft. You can’t give everyone flares. If you really want flares, go play the Mirage IIIE! But then you’re have some different problems, because any balance change replaces a problem by another
My point from the beginning was that the Milan should get better missiles, something on the level of the F-6C on the same BR. I never asked for it to get countermeasures. I only pointed out their absence, combined with its poor missiles, as a major weakness.
Alright then, I guess that’s valid. Magic 1 is imo a terrible idea because that would render the plane useless, but AIM-9E would be something I guess. I mean, the F-5C you were talking about has 9E at 10.7
There are a few reasons the Milan should not get R.550 Magics.
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Milan was a prototype designed for Switzerland that never entered Swiss or French service. Switzerland never operated Magic missiles. Yes, the Milan is in the French tree, but it was added before there was a Swiss subtree under Germany.
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The Milan program was terminated (1972) before the Magic ever entered service (1975)
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Additionally, if the Milan got Magics, it would move to at least 10.0 since it is faster than the IIIC and accelerates faster/turns better than the IIIE. It fills a niche better as the only Mirage at a BR <10.0 with historically accurate AAMs rather than a sidegrade to the Mirage IIIC at the same BR.
EDIT: And 9Bs are definitely usable at 9.7 given how fast Milan is. Are they META, no. But you can get kills at much higher BRs with AIM-9B used correctly. I have done so while grinding many planes such as the F-4C, F8U-2, and F-8E.
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- Hopefully we’ll get a decompression at some point in the near-decade and so could sit proportionally much lower and thus perform a lot better in that potential future decompression. Especially within the ground attacker role
(this is why I would personally be opposed to it , making changes based upon the idea of balance, when the game is this heavily compressed, especially at one of the most compressed BRs in game… is akin to shooting yourself in the foot with a rocket launcher)
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enjoy 10.0 br
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Just go play the Mirage 5F is you’d love a 10.0 Milan so much, it’s literally what it would be
At the point where we have AIM-9L at 9.3? I don’t think so.
Just make it 9.3, and also eventually make f6c 10.0 and everything above one rating increase too. It’s still extremely stupid that for 1 rating increase you go from 10g to 20g missiles. How balanced
Nuh-uh.
And even in your previous posts on the very same topic of Milan (in relation to F-106):
Id advise you to stop lying in the first place.
We don’t have AIM-9L at 9.3. Enjoy 10.0 with Magics.
Possibly 10.3 since it has the 9K50.
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