the radar is not the same as the MLA thats the main point of the MLA upgrade, so in game it is representing an 23-12 ML right now though its more of a mix mash, either way the current interpretation is completely made up, ML/MLA never had BP-50-60, ML either has wrong weapons and radar performance or wrong radar, neither should have SPO-15 since German MLAs had SPO-10s, and 23-12 MLs never got exported and would have only SPO-10, those are are very wrong
This has been known for a long time…There are a lot of hybrids in the game…
but even as hybrids its still wrong on many levels
Now fixed.
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Let’s not forget that during the first days of the Iran-Iraq war the MiG-23MS (The absolute worst model of the fighter MiG-23 variants ever made) had a 3:0 K/D against Iranian F-5E’s. The only MiG-23 losses initially were MiG-23BN (bomber models).
The first losses of the MiG-23s were due to a combined effort of having low alt F-4’s and F-5’s trailing the high alt F-14 targets. Those MiG-23MF’s which they had just acquired were shot down by the F-14’s thanks to the careful watch of the F-4 and F-5 escorts below them preventing sneak attack tactics… hard to engage with an F-14 otherwise.
Immediately after the introduction of the MiG-23ML, they shot down Colonel Hashem All-e-Agha in his F-14. That isn’t to include when they shot down a defecting Tomcat pilot’.
After 1984 the Iraqi’s had exhausted the Iranian air-force badly enough that they stopped operating their fighters over the front lines. Overall during the entire war they lost three MiG-23MS models, one MiG-23MF, and one MiG-23ML to enemy fighters. They scored seven victories including two Tomcats for the ML… again… not including the defector. If you look at unconfirmed victories it is 20+ downed Iranian aircraft… but that would include unarmed reconnaissance aircraft and bombers… not what I’m looking for.
That would be a total of 2:1 K/D against Tomcats for the MiG-23ML between Iran and Iraq… interesting.
Source:
Cooper, Tom (2018). MiG-23 Flogger in the Middle East, Mikoyan i Gurevich MiG-23 in Service in Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Libya and Syria, 1973-2018
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What people do not understand, even today , is that GDP or GDP per capita is a garbage metric for some comparisons. What matters the most in this case is PP, Purchasing power. How much goods can that money buy you.
For 6000 dollars per month you can rent a god tier luxury Mansion and eat like kings in many non EU/USA countries. You pay that money only for a 80m² house rent in new York.
So saying USSR GDP lagged behind is a very wrong comparison method and a weak argument for this case. Especially since it wasn’t built on free trade where GDP matters more for trading like USA.
So I agree with you 👍
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Is the ML supposed to be able to use the R-24? I remember reading that those were introduced with the MiG-23MLA but I might be wrong.
We discussed on this issues a year ago and they concluded that later variants of the 23ml could carry the R24.
I read through some of the info on this topic and people mentioned an ML(A) with ML designation but MLA capability. Maybe if that’s what the premium MiG-23ML is supposed to represent they should add that (A) to the name. Or at the very least a /L to denote Late, or something. I imagine it isn’t too much of a deal though.
Hello, I am back.
I feel like I’m going a little bit crazy when I think of this, but; the MiG-23BN.
Could it or could it not use missiles? I have seen conflicting evidence (and a lack of sources to tell me either way), but I would imagine that if it could, it would’ve been reported long ago as missing. Admittedly, I don’t know very much about the MiG-23 non-fighter variants, but I feel like if it was fitted with the systems to guide ground munitions (Kh-23) it could also be used to “guide” (launch) basic AAMs like K-13/R-3S.
Additionally, what about the flares? I’ve never seen any evidence of the MiG-23BN being fitted with the above-fuselage flares like the KDS-155, but wouldn’t it be able to use the below-fuselage PKWP-23, because it is a combined flare dispenser and wet pylon for fuel tanks?
Apologies if I got any of the names wrong.
It can use missiles but doesn’t have them for balance.
Which ones? Just R-3S or also R-60/R-60M?
Some of them are equipped with countermeasures in some way from unofficial sources, but the Mig23BN in the game does not need it.
it cannot, only defensive weapon was the gun, Air to Air missile capability was added back later with the MiG-27.
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unfortunately the MiG-23B/BN was pretty defenseless no countermeasures of any sorts beyond ECM. The aircraft had high loss rates compared to other MiG-23s because of this. It was mostly a workhorse aircraft getting bombs delivered from point A to point B with decent speed, overall it was outclassed by the later MiG-27 and even later MiG-23s like the ML had the same air to ground capability beyond not having the extra hardpoints.
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According to what?
Victory Markovsky’s book on the MiG-23B/27 goes over the lack of air to air munitions, none of the manuals available mention anything about air to air missiles, pilots talk about having no guided weaponry beyond KH-23s in interviews, and there aren’t any photos of a MiG-23B/BN with an air to air missile while the MiG-27 has plenty available.
You may be thinking of the MiG-23BM which did have air to air weapons as it was a preproduction MiG-27 of sorts, the OG 27
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I don’t know that there were any modifications preventing it so much as there was no real reason to use them on the BN. If they swapped pylons I’m sure they could just mount the missiles and utilize them… unless they totally removed the capability from the basic wiring during construction.
its not a wiring limitation its just a matter of the FCS cannot recognize air to air missiles, C-23S fire control system (C-23SN in the MiG-23BN) lacked the ability to operate air to air missiles. The air force command didn’t deem air to air missiles necessary and therefore chose to forego adding the capability to C-23S, they however would end up deciding self defense missiles would be necessary later on with the MiG-27 series that came later on.
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@_Fantom2451 I still hope gaijin add another MiG-23 for USSR/Russia tech tree since rank 6 ~ 8 such as MiG-23P in a folder between MiG-23M & MiG-23MLD (23-18) at rank 7, MiG-23B or MiG-23BN add to rank 6 before MiG-27 and MiG-23MLD 23-19 to early rank 8 between MiG-23M/MiG-23MLD & MiG-29
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