WIP history, design, performances… place for discussion of the MiG-23 series.
Let’s discuss!
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Let’s discuss this here @Ziggy1989
Seems you’ve taken quite a lot of stances that are opposite of the truth here. Care to elaborate?
- What is the purpose of MiG-23?
A) Interception and destruction of air targets.
B) Conducting maneuver air combat.
C) Destruction of land and naval targets.
It was designed from the onset to conduct maneuver air combat. It is a maneuverable aircraft. Unfortunately, they did not teach very many Russian pilots how to do air combat maneuvering at the time so it was few elite pilots who knew how to do this. Most American pilots (and Western pilots in general) were trained to do WVR combat.
Considering they made wild claims about the MiG-23 even being capable of shooting 20mm NATO from their 23mm I will discount any claim from the constant peg program until it is proven by actual documentation and flight testing.
yeah dunno were the idea of the MiG-23 being a bad dogfighter came from, the ML was able to go toe to toe with F-16s and had a fantastic STR
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And early on there were many nations without any BVR capability for their F-16s so the MiG-23 series was quite formidable! When the MLD came out and was equipped with R-73 it maintained a fierce opposition to American gen4 fighters.
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That’s cute, the same can literally be said of any fighter that flies. Tell mee what is the first word of the top priority of the aircraft in A.
So, you are saying that because some individuals in the program came and said some incorrect things years after the program was declassified and went public to act as cover story to conceal development of the Night hawk, that the any data which was gathered from the evaluations which came at the cost some American pilot’s lives is of little to no value? Because some video gamer on the internet saw a discrepancy and got his hands on a Mig23 MF operational manual. Now he knows everything. Watch out!
Therefore, you indicate there was no real competent evaluations conducted by Airforce and Pentagon analyst down to the bolt and nut. That no experience or real knowledge came to the pilots who the Mig23 daily, in any test that put the Mig23 far past what operational manuals dictate, some losing their lives. That nothing was learned as the pilots also served as top secret aggressor squadrons in other CONSTANT subprograms where only hand selected air crews of the Navy and Airforce would face. Even certain A-10 pilots were flown against the 23.
So, any data that was gathered in the CONSTANT PEG program was a failure and any actual documentation published of their evaluations is to be brushed off as made up, or propaganda all because someone in the program claimed something incorrect. That is fascinating.
yes though keep in mind the R-73 was for the most part a unicorn in MiG-23MLD units. But the MLD’s much better FCS and higher AoA meant it was able to perform very well in dogfights anyways. All around a very slept on plane and I blame it entirely on the MiG-23MS having a terrible reputation
I have images and documentation that suggest there was widespread use of the R-73 on Frontline units with MLD.
Constant peg was geniunely a psyop but accidentally, so much incorrect information was gathered from it and the lives lost from the program were for silly reasons like pilots not reading flight manuals before hand and unknowingly exceeding limitations of the airframes also the airframes tested in constant peg were MiG-23BN and MiG-23MS, quite literally the worst MiG-23 variants by far and should not be seen as indicative of the MiG-23M/ML/MLD’s performance.
The whole program is just silly
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No, not all fighters can fit in that description
The F-14 was designed with similar goals, and I didn’t say or insinuate 99% of what you said. Let’s stick to the facts of your erroneous original statement
I want to see data.
Saying is different than doing.
Can’t do B without first accomplishing A, where are you going with this?
The reason A is above B, is because if you build something maneuverable enough to win a dogfight… But it’s not fast enough to intercept the enemy… He will ignore you and continue his mission.
It roughly translates to;
Fast enough to reach the enemy, maneuverable enough to destroy him. Capable of carrying ordnance to attack ground and naval targets as well.
What the hell does the F-14 have to do with this? Because it has variable swept wings? lol
The F-14 is its own design, not a multitude of copied technologies smashed together in a pathetic effort to catch up with a peer nation’s aviation industry during the Cold War like that of Mikoyan’s Mig23. That is all the 23 it is, and ever will be.
Lol those are not steps LMFAO. They are purposes. YOU JUST TYPED IT. You do not even know what you are reading or typing.
gg, lol I gtg.
I guess we will never see any of this data you spoke such nonsense about. Thanks for your opinion.
If anyone has real data feel free to share, I’ll be working on the OP a bit.
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You can go in the last forum to look.
That forum isn’t sticking around. Feel free to move the data here where it belongs. I’ll wait.
You are the forum diva. I might go get it for you.
Only one time though.
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whats uh… whats uh copied in the MiG-23…?
according to him from the f4