16-5 is an aggregate value from the kills that can be confirmed with reasonable confidence. I didn’t use an individual source as there are no comprehensive sources that can safely be taken at face value. 20-5 is taking any source I had that I wasn’t 100% sure was incorrect, 16-5 is from sources I was fairly confident were trustworthy, and 7-5 is taking the most pessimistic interpretation I could come up with on sources. 16-5 is the highest value I feel comfortable giving and I feel I should clarify that I feel that if the kill ratio is not 16-5, it is likely somewhat lower, not somewhat higher, as most of the confusion comes from Iran-Iraq where both sides had issues after action with overestimating their fighter’s effectiveness and underestimating the effect of their AA; thus while I do feel I managed to filter out the overestimation when I was looking at the kills case by case, if I made a mistake it is more likely that it was from being too generous than too pessimistic. I don’t have them saved ATM but I could track them back down if you’d like.
my problem with this argument is that it means that we never get a representation of Flogger at different points in time. we have the MiG-23 airframe of the early 70s (M/MF), mid 70s (ML/MLA), and early 80s (MLD), but they are all equipped as they were in the early 80s. because of this they’re all crammed into the same rough BR in spite of dramatic performance differences, which both prevents us from being able to fly a MiG-23 with any historical armament besides the early 80s weaponry, and prevents us from having any MiG-23s we can fly at a BR that isn’t shared by every other version of the same plane including several better ones. it’d be like if every model of F-4 got the same armament of AIM-9Ms and AIM-7Ms, and all were placed at 12.7, except for F-4C, which would be at 12.3. it would suck and the way they currently balance MiG-23 sucks for the same reason
The MiG-23M was produced from 1972 but the definitive use of the aircraft was not until 1977 when the 5G limit was removed. These airframes were already equipped with R-60M and in fact a MiG-23M was the test bed for Russia’s first HMS. It makes no sense to give it worse armament than the aircraft before it. No sense at all.
Biggest problem for MiG-23 is people believe in stories from Cold War about it’s record, which aren’t backed up by facts.
The losses of a half dozen 23BN bombers to F-15’s doesn’t show anything about an ML.
Was it also able carry R-60M or only basic ones (I mean historically)?
Thats why MiG-23MLD should get R-73, R-24MR (of course with fixed radar) and go up in BR. For low BR can we get again for example MiG-23S. So we have representations of MiG-23 in different ages.
Officially, all restrictions for the MiG-23M were lifted in 1980, meaning that after the restrictions were lifted, the MiG-23M had 8G at speeds of less than 850 km/h and 7.5G at speeds of more than 850 km/h…
Historically, the MiG-23M of the Soviet Air Force could use the R-60M, although I will not say exactly how the sights were modified, especially since various modifications of the sights were installed during mass production…
Do you mean Su-15TM?
I wrote about the MiG-23M, but there were restrictions on various missile combinations related to engine operation…
There are no restrictions on the R-60M missile itself, it was used even on helicopters…
Spoiler
However, there is a photo of the Su-15TM with the R-60M in the book by V.Markovsky, I.Prikhodchenko…
Spoiler
Su-15TM was used in Russia until 1993 and it most certainly equipped R-60M in large numbers until then as the original R-60 was no longer being produced or stored for Russian air forces iirc.
R-24RM in terms of WT wouldn’t change much if anything, the improvement was mostly ECCM centered.
I agree on the rest.
Yo, and not forget. There is also option to carry S-5P/S-8P. For MLD it wont help much but for MiG-23M it can as it will double number of countermeasures (12 flares + 16 chaffs) but for price of lost of two R-60M.
Why aren’t these types of countermeasures in game yet? Haven’t these been requested for months now?
Also are these CMs high caliber?
It was requested only on RU forum. For S-5P variants probably low caliber and for S-8P large calibers.
Anyone know what parameter is wing sweep in the local host? How does wtrti read wing sweep?
Huh,. interesting. Few days ago on RU forum MiG-23-98 suggestion went through as “Approved by players”
(Just wanted to share the info)