Do you know of a good place I can buy a PDF online? I can’t find the translated version anywhere or track down what ISBN or other associated codes it might be associated with
I’ll DM you.
2 Likes
lamest excuse of “I am too lazy to research myself” I ever read.
I cannot believe you just went on the internet and snip this as if this some compelling universal law that must be kept… lol
Lol instead of researching yourself, you would rather go through all this work of straight up begging me get do it for you, when you can probably have done it by now. (might have to purchase a book, like I did way back)
Additionally, if we are to go with the “burden of proof guideline” How can you even establish if my belief is contrary to the popular in aviation history? That it is just you, and a handful of video gamers on the internet believes otherwise?
That many in experts in the Military aviation and history are of my belief.
You also indicate that its a popular belief held by many as “myth” Even @MiG_23M keeps bringing up some old pilot that flew the mig23 and many other fighters that stated incorrectly that round types were interchangeable as well as parts. Regardless of his misspoken statements on the adaptability of the 20mm round. He also confirms some parts are interchangeable that were discovered.
With that said he is an expert about the aircraft, still knowing more and than you and @MiG_23M combined ever about flying supersonic aircraft, let alone the Mig23 lol.
I say the burden of proof is on you to show that not a single part of the aircraft is interchangeable with NATO and the soviet cold war doctrine along with everything I else I said never happened.
Do some debunking and get back and I will think about providing source if it’s interesting enough.
But yet you keep inviting me to each of your of threads? Every single time you personally invite me to your newly created thread on any topic.
Again, EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Kind of weird tbh.
You sure love hearing what I have to say knowing I will not provide you with sources. Why should I start now?
Mans yapping too much
2 Likes
You’re openly admitting that you aren’t going to be useful to the discussion and are constantly insulting people, I don’t know why you’d continue to worsen your case and discredit yourself so badly. I don’t want you here if you don’t have valid and respectable sources. I gave you the opportunity to prove your claims, you cannot, it is what it is.
The sawtooth was not meant to create a vortex, it can at specific AoA… but it improves airflow on the body and wing. The slats deploy at just 10 degrees AoA with wing sweep 33 degrees or more forward. It allows the aircraft to reduce buffeting, wing rock, etc. There are also vortex generators on the wing tips but that was not new to the MLD as far as I’m aware. It should allow the aircraft to maximize lift to drag ratio of the wing without physically pointing the aircraft with as much AoA as previous models unless I am misunderstanding how this works.
All MiG-23 models suffer the worst spin tendencies around 45 degree sweep, pulling too hard on the stick can cause sudden departure or stalls. The MLD drastically improves this and allows for a much improved handling / carefree maneuver.
1 Like
I already admitted that to you and moderation, that I regrettably think you are inferior and made it quite clear for you to leave me alone. That I do not engage in any post you make.
Many things you say are false, but hilarious to read and why I do not wish to block or mute yet.
The only reason I am chosing not to provide @DracoMindC anything of my own research because you are part of this discussion and it is a topic you created and invited me to participate in as if you did not just go to moderation complaining that I was bullying you.
With that said, I am running out ideas at this point as to why you continue to attempt to engage with me other than suffering from a type of social illness/deficit.
And how does it do that? By generating a vortex. It is a vortex generator. Similar thing used on the F-5, F-16, Su-27, and pretty much all modern fighters.
Again, other aerodynamic improvements could positively affect STR, but it is a question of whether they outweigh the drag penalties caused by the sawtooth.
1 Like
You don’t have anything to hand us.
No, it just improves airflow over the body and wing. The lambda flow is superior to the prior delta shape. Further, at angles of attack, it can additionally create a vortex which improves lateral stability.
So we have potentially an increase in drag caused by the vortex generators on the nose, an improvement in drag due to the teeth at the base of the wing root (maybe with an increase in drag during AoA due to additional vortices)… but it also has increased lift from the leading edge flaps according to Markovsky.
It states that it preserves lift at low speeds (which would imply higher angle of attack). It also says “the slat extension increased the curvature of the wing profile and, consequently, its lift characteristics, also facilitating a smoother flow over the “upturned” leading edge without stalling.”… It then also states that drag was slightly reduced from the wing due to the leading-edge suction force.
Overall, I think the MLD should outperform the ML and MLA currently in sustained turn rate due to the aerodynamic improvements. Certainly, due to the leading edge flap it should be able to sustain high turn rates… sustained turn should improve at lower required AoA and at similar true nose attitude it would ideally have improved sustained turn rates.
@k_stepanovich Perhaps one of the devs can state why the MiG-23MLD is out-rated by the ML and MLA when it seems it should have an improved turn rate?
23-22A
I was under the impression 23-47 had Siren (Сирень)
1 Like
Yeah, you are right, they were sold in 92 in exchange to MiG-25RB
(WIP): Later with time I will add more variants, fix anything if needed, sort list better and try to add small description to each variant. You can ask me to add/fix me anything, so list will be finished faster.
MiG-23 variants list:
MiG-23 (23-11)
MiG-23UB (23-51, 23-51A, 23-51B)
MiG-23S (23-21, 23-11S)
MiG-23M
MiG-23M (23-11M)
MiG-23M (23-34)
MiG-23M variant for testing PM-6 and «Kometa» target towing system
MiG-23MS (23-13)
MiG-23MF
MiG-23ML (23-12, 23-12A, 23-12B)
23-15
MiG-23P (23-14)
23-16
MiG-23MLD (23-18, 23-19, 23-22A, 23-22B)
MiG-23MLDG (9-35, 9-37)
MiG-23MLS (23-47)
MiG-23MLG (9-57)
MiG-23-98
MiG-23A
MiG-23K (32-31)
MiG-23B (32-24)
MiG-23BN (32-12, 32-23A, 32-23B, 32-23K)
MiG-23BR (32-24R)
MiG-23PD (23-01, 23-31)
List includes all variants (prototypes, projects, proposals, mockups and etc).
1 Like
No…!
- In fact, this is due to changes in the variants of the SAU on different versions of the Su-17…
From the 34th series, the SAU-22M-3 was installed on the aircraft with a cross-linking machine and a withdrawal unit from a dangerous height, allowing flights in automatic mode over flat terrain at altitudes of 50-100 m. From the same series, to improve the behavior of the aircraft at high angles of attack, an automatic slat was installed on the aircraft. Now, with the wing in the 45° position, when the angle of attack was reached at 16° or according to the growth rate of the angle, the end section of the slats was automatically extended to its approach. The system made it possible to significantly expand the range of flight modes and safety, allowing the pilot to confidently pilot the car at previously critical and forbidden speeds and angles of attack. With the automation turned on, with an “aerobatic” wing sweep of 45 °, the permissible angles of attack “with a cast” without the risk of stall increased to 31 ° (previously, the limit angle in this configuration was 22°). The minimum evolutionary speed at which the normal control of the aircraft was maintained, with all variants of the wing position and combat load suspensions, was reduced by 50 km/h. So, for an aircraft without suspensions, the controllability of the aircraft was maintained up to 350 km / h instead of the previous 400 km / h … - The switch itself is Multi-position …
- Su-17M / Su-17M4…
1 Like
Yes the mog23 is a copy of the f4
(Source it came to me in a dream)
That’s one of if not the best post I have ever seen in this forum :D.
Is there some site/book where we can look into more detail about which variant of the MiG-23 shot down or got shot down in the various wars it fought? It would be really interesting to try to make some sort of list so we can look individually at each variant performance.
I agree with everything that was said here, but the reason I was kinda defensive when I posted that economy pdf is because I do not want to go too much off topic and spark a conversation about the history of the USSR, which while would be interesting the MiG-23 thread in the war thunder forum is not the right place for it.
Said this many times to other people, never managed to explain it this well. Given what the common understanding of Soviet history is, this should be put in every history book.
I think you did not understand what I have said (or more precisely you did understand but choose to go around my statement): Just post proof that the US airforce said that the MiG-23ML/MLA/MLD series is a “bad” and “failed” aircraft and that the MiG-23 is made from copied F-4 phantom parts and that you can use F-4 phantom stuff on the MiG-23 and it will work just fine (or whatever was the claim you made).
In other terms: post anything where the USAF (not some random “expert” or enthusiast, someone that talks in the name of the USAF) says what you said. Be it a pdf, a document an image a video, whatever. Post something where the USAF says what you claim
interesting, good read!