Even without flares, dodging AIM-9P4s and R-60Ms is easier in an F-100D than it is a Mig-17… when launched from a far more maneuverable aircraft like Su-25.
When launched from a Mig-25? It’s going to be anywhere from slightly easier to significantly easier to dodge an R-60.
The faster something goes, the worse the turning circle.
This is seen from launching AIM-9Bs at 700kph and 1000kph. A 10G missile becomes a much larger threat when the launch platform slows down a bit.
An R-60M launched from an 800kph vehicle [Su-25] is going to maneuver better than one launched above mach.
Then put into the factor that the Mig-25’s agility is hilariously worse than that of the Mig-21SMT’s makes even even easier to dodge.
Neither can it the Mig-23M radar with the R-23R.
I don’t see people complaining about the Mig-23M.
People are already chaffing the vastly superior R-24R despite the same benefit.
Also, new update corrected engine thrust a lot.
Time to climb F-104S vs Mig-25. 8000 meters to give Mig-25 advantage.
Mig-25:
1000kph: 55 seconds.
8000 meters: 115.
Mach 1.5: 176.
Of course the reality is F-104S is 11.3 because of its super fast fighter-bomber role.
Gun, 4 - 6 AIM-9Js, and 2 - 4 napalm typical load.
Being the fastest 11.3 in the game, and having such multirole capability has proven it.
The Mig-21Bis at 11.0 is superior to the Mig-25 as well, having a similar load but with a gun and flight performance.
Mig-23M/MF is 11.0 while being superior in flight performance and having a gun.
JA37C is 11.3 with a PD radar, and flight performance.
Like, there is no way Mig-25 can be anything other than 10.7 without moving 11.0 up beforehand.
It’s closest flight performance equivalent is the F-104A, but even then the F-104A has a gun and better flight performance.
The F-104 is to the Mig-25 what the F-20A is to the F-104S.
Sure, the F-104S is faster, but it’s not going to win against an F-20A.
To add to this is how how little aircraft in general below 11.0 can detect J band radars on their RWR.
While we don’t generally balance vehicles off introduction date, it’s these little things that get missed. If the Foxbat can lock and fire on aircraft that can’t detect that, dodging doesn’t matter a whole lot. Of the aircraft labeled as fighters in game, the only ones that can detect J band radar, under 11.0 there is only a few, US, UK, and Italy don’t have one entirely, where Germany has one the F-4F Early, an event vehicle, and Japan, France, and Russia having the most. Where the rest have one or two.
I feel like it will be another Mig-21S, that is good because it uses a J band radar at a BR where even RWRs are rare. R-3Rs are not these ultimate weapons, but if you can’t tell if your painted you can’t dodge. Giving a jet that ability, that is arguably the most interceptor aircraft, with look-down radar means free kills to a lot of matches. A lot of you fail to remember the majority of the player base touches grass on occasions.
This is an event vehicle that will be stuck in the spot of either OP if under tiered, or terrible over-tiered. I will always rather they be over-tiered. The 279 is still the monster it always has been because of this.
I mean it’s in the same boat as the mig-23m, that also has a j band radar. I don’t think it will be anything too insane at 11.0, that should be a good br for it as it’s effectively a worse mig-23m
The primary acceleration nerf just happened, and 1260 is still well below what many around 10.7 can do, including the 1360kph Mig-21MF/SMT which is itself on the slower end.
To put this in perspective of every jet that can catch a Mig-25 <6000 meters at 10.3 - 11.0:
F-4F, F-4EJ, Mig-21MF* x2, Mig-21SMT*, F-104G x3?, F-104J, Mirage III* x2 [Mirage will take longer though], J-7D*, Mig-23M/MF* x3, Mirage 5BA*, AJ37*, AJS37*, Mig-21Bis*, F-35*, … There might be some missing.
.* - Has RWR that can see J band.
And while F-5E* can’t catch it, F-5E also can never die to a Mig-25 when played correctly.
@Scorlord
How little?
My list contains aircraft faster than the Mig-25 that can detect J band.
That and the R-40R is at best an average radar missile, at worst it’s hot trash.
Your list seems to match what I said generically, may of not been clear, meant below 11.0, not at. And that fighters are more rare than strike-craft. Cause yes the Av-8 can detect J band at 9.7, its not a pure righter.
I believe it should be at 11.0, its closer to 11.0 aircraft than 10.7 and 10.3. Again I’d rather these event vehicles be over-tiered than under-tiered.
Faster is relative, I believe you mean quicker or faster acceleration. Which I agree, but my argument is not based entirely off a single dog fight, but an overall Air RB match. I feel like its ability to target aircraft that can see it, will be like having a mini Phoenix at it’s BR.
Well, ask yourself this.
How often are F-104s from F-104A to F-104S [not ASA] controlling matches?
Mig-25 can’t control matches as well as they can because of no gun and worse flight performance.
So if F-104G at 11.0 isn’t controlling matches, the Mig-25 won’t either.
It’s a good support aircraft, but it’s reliant on the same enemy group that Sea Vixen is reliant on.
A10 with the 4 all aspect is 10.7, and this also has 4. Should be at least 11.0. Even if the r60m is significantly worse it still just gets to frontally unavoidable kill 9.7/10.0
Italian and German f104 kinda just suck really hope they lower them next rating changes. I did okay with the Italian stallion(11.3) but it doesn’t seem to be much better than the mig21bis at 11.0.
Trash radar without pd filter and no have chaff restist, no gun, joke rocket booster and track rate. R60m literally 1 flare and the r40td too.
Mig25 just one overhyped flying brick. And the f104 better in this br.
Your post is full of copium.
My argument isn’t that it will be oppressive or under-tiered because of its inherit performance. My argument is the equipment it will have.
Your F-104G example, are all IR only aircraft. They have radars, but no radar missiles so even in a down tier their radar’s band doesn’t have an effect on how they could attack an enemy. At Air RB its basically no need to have search radar to close in for IR missiles, that’s the meta of the game.
Since you’ve brought up the F-4EJ and F-4E they are good examples of having radar missiles, but on a band most sub-11.0 RWR’s can detect. So even in a full down tier they couldn’t “surprise” a target with a sparrow. Where the Mig-25 could “surprise,” both of those F-4’s lack an RWR with J band reading.
In a furball, its not dominating, nor is R-40s going to pull enough. Its not there where they’ll be used, its at the start of the match. This is where it’s climb rate and acceleration will help, and help get the first shot off. Like I said be like firing Phoenixes at lower levels. Yes they can only fire one at a time, but that’s still an R-40 with a really good chance at 10.7 of engaging an aircraft that isn’t aware it’s been locked and fired at. Where at 11.0 that list shrinks so its usefulness comes down to skill more than advantage.
You’ll have mach 4 radar guided missiles launched from an aircraft that should be at mach 1, engaging other aircraft approaching or at mach 1 unaware. That closure distance isn’t great, and it isn’t affect by ground clutter very much if at all. Yes the sparrow is just as fast, not as long ranged, but is more maneuverable. Its also a 4th of the R-40 in explosive mass, so the R-40 even a near miss will more likely cripple your aircraft than a sparrow.
Its the missile itself, radar, and radar band that make me feel it should be at 11.0, and not 10.7. I don’t think higher would be good for it, but 10.7 is too low. I would rather limit the 10.3 and low aircraft to face it than, to have it possible see 12.0.
Yea that’s also a good point, I forgot A10 exist. 4 R60M on a platform that can easily run circle around pretty much every plane it faces and Mig25 can use its speed to pick what plane it want to fight, unlike the A10 that is forced to fight whatever comes near it.
That reason alone should make the Mig25 higher than A10, at least 11.0. Not even mentioning the radar missile and a decent radar it has. Mig25 could even drop the R-40RD and take R-40TD instead, letting it carry 6 all-aspect IR missile. 10.7 is definitely too low.
