Appreciate it boss
The M2K is way better than the 29 in these modes aswell.
Magic 2s mean that anything within 2km rear aspect dies with near 100% certainty. 530Ds, while not as busted as the 27ERs are still very capable. 2 insane missiles, 2 good missiles, best FM for the BR.
Mig-29 goes mach 1.3 at SL, M2K goes 1.2.
20km HMD/ACM vs 19km ACM.
Both have TWS + lock target functionality.
M2K has more fuel time available.
Mig-29 has superior energy retention at higher speeds.
Mig has R-27T/ER + 4x R-60Ms.
Mirage has Magic 2s + R-27R equivalent missiles. 4 total, 2 more meta missiles.
I’m not saying Mig-29 is 0.3BRs higher than Mirage 2000.
All I’m saying is they’re sidegrades.
Mig-29 with R-73s is however objectively superior to Mirage 2000C5 and F-16ADF. 6 R-73s will always be better than 4 total missiles [when the airframes are this close for air RB], only 2 of which being equivalents to R-73/R-27T whichever your bias leans toward.
At no point did I ever mean to misconstrue Mig-29’s capabilities as anything other than equivalent in air RB.
To reiterate, and I very much do apologize for my part in our misunderstanding; I want the oldest Migs to have the lowest historical loadout for the lowest BR. I want R-73s and newer weapons reserved for Migs made after 9.13.
Just as I want AIM-9Ls reserved for F-16s made after Block 5, and am annoyed that Gaijin hasn’t added Block 5 yet.
You got it man
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Mirage 2000 has a slightly worse flight model.
Do you even play the game?
MiG 29 with 3 r73 is fine at 12.7
mig29 fm is really bad like really.
for instance harrier gr7 is at 12.3 with infinite CM, MAW and 4 aim9m and even better FM than the mig29
so imagine a worse performing harrier gr7 in terms of fm, with less cm and no MAW. 2 more missiles which flat spin 50% of the time. still decent for 12.7 as this will make it lack any bvr capability
Are you really saying that you can’t dodge 2 r27er and 4 r60m? Is it really that hard? Cause you know, if you do that and merge with the 29, 9/10 times the 29 dies againsnt the M2K
That’s talking in the context of air RB.
This is no where close to being finished, but this is preliminary results for data relevant for air RB play, and yes it includes all BVR platforms and some IR only platforms.
Also there’s no such thing as a Mig-29 with 3 R-73s, there’s 6 or there’s none.
Harrier GR7 is not a supersonic fighter, it’s an objectively worse airframe than all supersonic aircraft for air RB.
@unluckyg
The air RB playstyle isn’t dogfighting.
BTW, I haven’t died to any radar missile in countless battles [no seriously, I don’t count my battles and can’t remember the last time I died to a radar missile].
Harrier GR7 is not a supersonic fighter
thats why i am putting the mig29 at 12.7. with more but objectively worse missiles. yes dogfighting doesnt exist but the serverload makes r73 to flatspin a lot and hence you would have to make it lead
ARB isn’t a 20 km drag race. These speed differences are negligle for general gameplay.
That’s a kilometer more on the MIG. Overal more user-friendly due to the fact that you can select who you want to lock in the battle, but not as important as you make it out to be.
Again, both planes are large airbrakes. This doesn’t matter. Turning at 2G isn’t going to do much for you.
Yadda Yadda, R27ERs are good at extremely long range, but can be countered by flying low. Phoenixes and Fakours kill you before you enter the NEZ of the 27ER headon. Turn performance is the exactly the same as the 27Rs.
No one here has said that the 29 should be .3 lower. What we are saying is that in the curent matchmaker, at the current BRs, the 9-12 and 9-13 are performing subpar and are extremely unfun to play. You shoot 2 R27ERs, get 2 more or less free kills and then get stuck with a missile that can be found as early as 10.0? at 12.7. Removing the ERs and giving the players even just two R73s would force players to fight closer to the enemy but give them a chance to win at close ranges with the more than subpar FM of the 29s. (We literally fought the thing with a Kfir C7 and it neraly lost).
Which again, this is about AIR RB. FMs don’t mean a lot at the higher tiers unless you talk levels of busted like the EF2000, Rafale or the F15E.
The Mig-29 can do one thing, bleed a lot of speed and float behind someone. As soon as you have a semblence of brain, you can start preflaring the probably incoming R73. After that, it’s stuck at 500km/h.
That will make it a worse 21 Bison at the same BR.
That’s just a plain lie, sometimes you just get surprised by a fox-1 at 61m altitude while fighting someone and die.
Ok, so you “dont die to SARH missiles” and that is the only “advantage” of the 29 over the m2k, i guess we can agree then that even for air rb the M2K is better than the mig 29 9.12 and 9.13 then, since missiles dont matter and M2K has better fm = M2K > mig 29
So yeah, give mig29 r73 e remove the r27ers
R-73s are not inferior to AIM-9Ms, and there are 6 of them.
The only way Mig-29 is 12.7 with R-73s is if ALL 12.7s move to 12.3 except Mig-29, and F-16A with 9Ms, Gripen, Mig-29G, etc move to 12.7. Some incorrectly call that compression, I call it bad decisions.
F-15E has a worse flight model than Mirage 2000 and Mig-29… you don’t see people complaining about that fact because it goes fast with the highest TWR in the game.
F-15E is to F-15C what F-104S is to Kurnass.\
@unluckyg
Then Mig-29 goes to 13.0 with F-16A 9M, Gripen, Mig-29G, etc.
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r73 can very well get flared within 2km upto 1.3km, AIM9m in comparison has nearly same flare res for all ranges due to its irccm nature. aim9m is much harder to flare than a r73. only thing r73 has over it is its 40g pull and tvc(which is actually bad because it causes it to flatspin)
not to mention the useless rwr called the spo 15
R-73s only “flatspin” at super low speeds. Literally haven’t had one flat spin outside of intentional attempts to cause it cause I don’t get slow enough to cause it.
SPO-15 is a good enough RWR, good enough for me 1.9:1 KDR in both of my fighter 29s against F-14s and F-4Js.
SPO-15 gives general direction and launch warnings.
spo15 and good enough? yeah
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46% fuel vs 75% though
Mig-29 would be better than the Mig-21Bis cause it’s not a 21Bis.
Mig-21Bis doesn’t perform anywhere as well as a Mig-29/Mirage 2000/F-16/F-14A/the 4th jet I can’t check.
F-15E and Mig-29SMT do not have busted flight models.
If you’re bleeding speed, stop pulling so hard.
I’ve never died to an AIM-54 unintentionally [literally the only time I died to it was in the Tornado MFG intentionally seeing what would happen if I didn’t do anything], and the 2 times I died to F-90s I was being a zomber in… bombers.
@MatrixRupture
Percentages don’t tell you the AB burn time. If I did it based on percentages, then Mig-29 would pull further ahead despite having less fuel for afterburner.
Percentages tell weight of fuel. you compared to a plane almost empty in fuel to one almost full of it.
I agree that they are not busted.
The only aircraft in game that is and needs a huge rework due to lack of performance is the Harriers.
Mirage 2000 with 46% fuel = 5 minutes on full AB.
Mig-29 with 76% [100% internal] fuel = 4.8 minutes on full AB.
I’m logging fuel consumption of every BVR jet in WT, this data will be public in time.
People will know what 5 minutes of full AB is for all BVR jets is in time.
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