They used that loadouts for training and mission at peace time i can search for some photos if you want
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Nah its alright, I get what you’re trying to say
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27ER is as historical as R-60M, R-73, etc.
They’re all historical.
Thus it’s not an argument to make.
The ONLY argument to make is about how missiles augment the airframe performance and the BR it’ll be.
The Mig-29’s flight model is one of the best 12.7 flight models in-game.
If you want me to support the removal of ERs to reduce the BR to 12.3? Sure.
I will not support R-73 though as we ALREADY HAVE Mig-29s with R-73s.
I see @strzelec213 is telling everyone to ignore facts again, derailing the topic again.
Irrelevant. That doesn’t change its status.
Yes i mean i was talking about early service years of migs in soviet union and time to it’s collapsed
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You are beyond wrong, read a little bit more and some more research before commenting :)
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As i tell you earlier show me any MiG-29 9.12 with R-27ER and find something to prove it. Then we can talk
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I think neither should have R-27Es. All MiG-29s except the SMT should have R-27R and R-73, at 13.0. This would be historical. It would be a bit of a nerf for the G, but I think it can handle it. The 27R and ER are similar in performance in the short to medium range where the MiG-29 is actually useful, because of its terrible radar it’s not very effective at BVR anyways. In fact, the R might even be better in a very short-ranged dogfight because of the lower acceleration
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@0minutes
Have fun proving hundreds of people wrong then.
Certainly you’re the only correct person on the planet…
Prove the F-16C can fire AIM-7F+ and prove Mig-29 can fire R-27ER.
I’m not the one that made these claims, the flight manuals are, which are OEM primary source documents.
The same manuals that tell you Mig-29 9.12 are R-73 compatible.
Also…
Got this from the WT forum too.
“But that’s a 29SMT.”
Prove its weapon management system is different from 9.12.
“It shows on an MFD.” That is a display for informing the pilot of things, not the system itself.
“It uses a newer radar.”
Radars are not weapon management systems. The reason F-16A ADF can fire all AIM-7s F-model forward is because of its radar modes. F-16A ADF’s 1980s weapon management system also sees all AIM-7s as the same thing whether it’s an AIM-7F or AIM-7P.
So you have to prove that the weapon management system can BOTH see R-27R and ER as separate missiles, and be unable to fire the latter. Cause the radar can fire both, they both use the same pylon, and R-27ER manuals showcase its compatibility with legacy Mig-29s as a way to keep them in-service without upgrading them to R-77 firing standards.
And refer to this:
I just won’t sit idly by to arguments nor support arguments whose foundations are incorrect.
Make a better argument to support your position.
Even an argument like this is better:
“I want R-73s on all Mig-29s cause I prefer those missiles.”
Already better than falsely claiming that historical accuracy is not historical accuracy.
Totally agree
The flight manuals of the MiG-29 (9-12) say that it can only carry the 27R
The 9-12 had a different Radar?
Almost every electronic devided was different XD
Oh Alvis u are so wrong with that “letter” and still i don’t see that photo and 9.12 with ERs.
The MiG-29 can in fact fire the R-27ER, as it can fit on the pylon and has the same seeker as the R-27R and communicates with the radar’s fire control system in the same way. The MiG-29 was not issued R-27ERs when they came out as they were made primarily for the Su-27. The 9-13 and 9-12 were not issued R-27ERs in large numbers if at all, and the foreign users of the MiG-29 (such as Germany or Romania) never upgraded from the R-27R as it came out after the fall of communism.
The SMT has a completely different radar and fire control system. It doesnt affect its ability to fire the R-27ER, but allows it to use the R-77. Same reason why the Su-27SM has an upgraded radar and different fire control system.
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- What is legacy MiG-29 for u because we all don’t know which one for you is that misterious legacy mig.
- No they are not compatibil with old 9.12 and 9.13
- They kepp them in service for other reason like money
As stated here, the radar isn’t the limiting factor as it’s already known to fire R-27Rs.
And ER’s seeker is identical in guidance method to that of R-27R.
Just like how AIM-7C - E-2 have the same guidance method and even AIM-7F having a CW illumination guidance feature as well.
This has to be proved. R-27R uses the same seeker tech. It’s still an R-27 missile just like how AIM-7F is still a CWI-capable AIM-7.
So you have to prove it’s incompatible, like you’d have to prove that F-4E cannot fire AIM-7Fs if you wanted to attempt that.
So I repeat that I support a Mig-29 9.12/9.13 with only R-60Ms and R-27Rs for 12.3 to further differentiate them from 29G and SMT.
However, 13.0 MiG-29 is not that bad, especially since Russia has a slightly larger gap between MiG-29A and MiG-29SMT so, they can add R-73 + R-27ET to the current MiG-29A(9.13), and add the original 9.12 model with R-60M + R-27ER instead as new vehicles.
It bears repeating: the more viable options, the better.
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A MiG-29 with only R-60s an R-27Rs would be incredibly handicapped in performance. They should get their historical loadouts of R-73s and R-27R/T. That way they are still competitive without eliminating the incentive to go for the MiG-29G (R-27ER/ET) or MiG-29SMT (R-27ER/ET, R-77 + better radar).
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MiG-29 4 early sub variants MiG-29 (9-12A), MiG-29 (9-12B), MiG-29 (9-13) & MiG-29G never launched R-27E
MiG-29S (9-12S & 9-13S), MiG-29M (9-15), MiG-29SMT (9-17) and MiG-29K (9-31) support R-27ER & R-27ET
In fact MiG-29SMT (9-19) armed R-74M, R-77-1 & retrofit R-77M like MiG-29K (9-41R) and MiG-35. but not ready R-74M & R-77M this year
I might want R-27R & R-27T replace with R-77-1.
2 or 3 years R-77M instead R-27ER & R-27ET, add R-74M and decompressing max BR to 14.3 or 14.7
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Not for 12.3.
And R-60Ms is still a historical loadout.
R-73s would make them 13.3 in the next decompression.
There are already other Mig-29s with R-73s, just use those. They’ll ALWAYS be the same BR as a 9.12 with R-73s if they lack R-77s.