Sim matchups do not represent RB matchups in a lot of cases. For instance rudder authority and elevator compression are significant influences on P-38 in RB.
Also Trainingdays is wrong about P-38 vs 109F match up. At higher skill levels a good 109 player consistently wins due to slightly higher turn rate and significantly higher power to weight ratio.
Lots of range and ammo is nice to have, but it doesn’t make a plane good. Russian planes are a great example of this, having little ammo but fly like UFOs.
I’ve never really played with the .50cal F4U-4. I think it might’ve been locked when Gajin inexplicably decided to rearrange the entire U.S. air tree.
I’ll try it out if I can.
They have extremely bad compression and wing rip at 500mph. It’s pretty easily to nullify the P-38’s height advantage.
They also have really bad roll, which combined with the especially good roll of German planes makes dodging easy, and the only one with good roll, the LO, has insanely bad turning.
On a side note, the LO’s airbrakes keep it just below 500 in a dive which is nice.
P-47D-25 is honestly one of my favorite U.S. planes, as on top of the normal P-47 advantages, it can actually outmaneuver Bf-109s and Typhoons.
I think it’s more so that German planes tend to perform well in the same places that American planes do, whilst also being in great positions to take advantage of where U.S. planes suffer.
It makes the platform good, as you can 3rd party people from long range and trying to energy-trap you oftentimes is suicidial. That’s a nice thing to have.
You should, it sits at very good BR, though it’s infested with Yak-3s.
Compression is not that bad, and it doesn’t have to boom and zoom you. It can just park on your 6. Fw 190 needs to be much faster than the target in the even of succesful dodge. P-38 just needs to catch the target.
I don’t think L has “inanely bad turning”. It can turn with any 109 and 190, outside of Ta-152H.
I think they are fairly evenly matched, but US teams are absolutely dogpoop at some BRs, I mean, when 3 German fighters, 1 attacker and 4 bombers wipe the US team out, because my AD-4 is not exactly winning a dogfight against Ta-152H and K4, while 1 remaining German fighter my teammates 1 after another… I stopped playing F2G because I just couldn’t deal with fighting 1 v 2-3 while my team’s fighters outnumbered enemy fighters by 50% in a 10 v 10 game (9 vs 6)
I mean, I’ve won A TON of games where my Ta-152H was one of like 2 German fighters vs entire US fighter team. They were that bad.
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That’s not the point.
Russian and Japanese .50s hit almost like 20mm cannons. In fact, russian .50 IAI hits SUPER hard where you can have fragmentation hit other parts of the aircraft.
These guns have basically similar amounts of filler or less to U.S. .50s.
Gaijin likes to play favorites with machine gun ammunition. Same thing with cannons.
If you have something act as a backstop, The round is going to detonate. Like, That’s quite literally how physics work. You crush an egg, it just breaks. You chuck an egg at the wall, it explodes. It also helps that the material inside is explosive. I’m not saying the .50 is throwing shrapnel everywhere. There’s not enough jacket to act as shrapnel, but Gaijin is having .50s with less or equal to explosive filler hit like close to 20mm while the U.S. has incendiary filler that also detonates.
Gaijin already admitted before they don’t balance off realism, but ‘gameplay’.
The point I’m getting is that arguing ‘This needs to be buffed’ and trying to use a realistic basis is not really a good approach as even some of the weakest cannons in the game are WAY stronger than they were IRL.
Lying about aircraft you have nearly 0 experience in and then insulting others isn’t a great look.
You should take your own advice
oooooh man. Can’t wait to see it go lower in BR XDDD
sim mode
This is what most people aren’t playing. I can take a P-38G and take fat steaming dumps on Yak-3Us if I have an altitude advantage because whaddya know, flying around with no markers for 15 minutes gives me ample time to climb to space. Too bad RB doesn’t allow that. The game mode that most people play.
Hellcat is not terrible, but it’s subpar. The only time you get something good is if you have altitude to bleed and/or you’re already flying with a high amount of energy or you have german aircraft being really dumb and trying to stall fight you (This is indeed funny when it happens). Something they won’t win. Guess what though? Guess who can do that better. The Corsair. The only thing the F6F does better is that it has better high speed control, which helps it quite a bit, but you produce so little horsepower, bleed so much speed, that you’re basically going to be in the realm where the corsair usually excels at.
Biggest part I disagree with is that the P-38E for whatever reason is EXTREMELY light in it’s controls. You fly the P-38E vs the P-38G and for some reason the P-38E feels like flying a kite, and I got away with fighting BF-109 F-4s with ease with the E variant. I have no clue why when I thought it was just a horsepower difference.
Mixture of Hispanos, having almost as much horsepower as the P-47D-28. And even at higher altitudes it still has great horsepower. If they added the F4U-5 that thing would be producing 2700-2800 horsepower at lower alts and around 2300-2500 at higher alts. That’s insane. But again. You have to remember. It’s hispano guns. Britain gets them as well and per shell they are pretty similar. And that’s super prop territory where everyone kinda gets scuffed performance in some way or another… Except the K-4. Lol
F4U-4 is only slightly slower than the F8F when scraping against the dirt, you produce around 2400 horsepower. The problem is that going up to even around 200-300 meters you lose almost 200 of it. You’re ultimately fast and you have the benefit of beating aircraft like the Bf-109, FW-190 but then you begin to lose out to the more maneuverable aircraft where with other U.S. aircraft you could use high speed maneuverability and your enemy’s control stiffening to win a fight. I did this a lot with I-185s and Yak-9s and Yak-3s in the D-22/D-25
Yes-ish. Very fast. But you can’t really fly it like a normal U.S. plane. It has some of the similar issues to the Corsair. High-speed maneuverability is not to ‘U.S. prop standard’ and baiting enemies to go fast isn’t as reliable as compared to doing it with a P-51D-30 or P-47D. Your strength comes from your engine being able to brute force itself into position at lower alts while being as light as a griffon spitfire. Mixed with a sorta ineffectual armament
They turn well, but they’re not agile. Aiming isn’t just ‘difficult’ Single engine fighters can dance around your nose for days. It’s easier to aim with a P-47. And since it’s armed with .50s there’s actually a bit of leeway if you get hit as if you get glanced by .50s your likelihood of catastrophic damage is much lower. Unless a cannon round hits you. I’d argue you’d have to be smarter with a P-38 than most other U.S. fighters as each movement is more of a commitment.
It’s also because for the RB meta, it doesn’t suit them well. There’s not enough large maps for U.S. planes to really shine, and if all U.S. planes simultaneously side climbed, they’d still be at a disadvantage as they can be intercepted. The only time I notice where these elements are balanced are when everyone gets an airspawn. Like in the cliffs of dover map.
I don’t like the answer when people say ‘Well, you just climb’ Sure. But if we go by that logic, if all U.S. players began to climb. Then people would learn. “I have to get the U.S. planes first.” It’s a natural course of people’s behavior to try and counter. You may be at around 3000-3500m but you’re at 250-290kmh. But If I’m above you by almost 750-1000m I still can dive on you and be first to put you defensive.
The only time I would say the U.S. is DEFINITIVELY better than the German props is around 5.3-6.3 The U.S. just has more options to work with at that range. The K-4 I will be frank. I think is trash. I’ve beaten K-4s in dogfights with a P-47D-28 and it feels like Spopovich obliterating Videl.
RNG-based fragment dispersion (and therefore damage) was a horrible idea.
I’d take MG131s over MG151/20s… Not even getting into the 15mm which is a death laser.
That thing is mid as hell
Players cried that Japanese and Italian .50cals were so weak and that they must be much better since they used explosive bullets.
Now if US .50cals would start to hit like other explosive bullets, they would become the most lethal fighters, since no one could compete with 6-8 .50cals that take 2-3 hits to black out a wing or rip a tail.
It’s the same story now with 20mm cannons.
They are so overperforming that 20mm Mineshells and 23-30mm cannons are practically redundant.
Either guns need to perform historically, which sadly means you need a lot of hits and a long time on target, unless you have a lot of them or hit with a large caliber, or we just say „oh well“ and turn every gun into one hit wonders, where all you need is to hit to end a fight.
Might as well just give planes Health Bars at this point.
The damage system of WT is nothing short than an arcade game at the moment, which is fitting for arcade mode.
But ripping full metal planes appart from a few grams of explosives isn’t realistic.
The contrast of this damage level is really laughable when you look at arcade mode on one hand and then sim on the other.
But the majority of realistic players seem to prefer this arcade like damage system.
There’s is a possible fix by adding damage multipliers to arcade and keep realistic damage in sim but that wouldn’t solve the issue with realistic mode.
Realistic is supposed to be the middle ground between arcade and a full sim.
Sim flight performance but easier controls.
They used to underperform, now they are correct (perhaps too powerful anyway) since you have to stay on target for a long time anyway. However, now the .50s of other nations have been upgraded too much.
I understand nothing because WT swings from Hitsparknos to GodHispanos, same for the MG151
British belts are very bad, though. SAPI shell is pretty damn horrible. Best belts have like 50% HE.
US best belts are like 75% HE EDIT:with bigger filler (dunno if it’s of any importance, though).
The best German belt, stealth, has 60% HE (stealth is the only belt where M-geschoss achieves advertised velocity).
Soviet belts have 100% HE.
If only SAPI would actually penetrate armor instead of exploding into confetti the moment it impacts a plane.
Oh… Been some time since I playes US and A in Air RB.
Honestly we need proper decoupling of the 3 modes rather than relying on additive & multiplicative modifiers. Stuff that enhances Instructor flight can negatively impact no autotrim, no instructor stick & rudder flying and vice versa (supposedly this is why Spitfires are so weird to fly in Warthunder compared to Il2:GB - fm is optimized for feel with instructor & autotrim so when you remove them it becomes weird).
Same for gun ranges. People advocating for buffing bombers giving them ~1km+ range without interference is probably perfectly fine for RB/AB but… 150-500 meter gun range for your typical fighter in SB would make them overpowered (they’re still very annoying with mouse click that ignores the plane spinning and being on fire while retaining accuracy, but itd get worse).
And as we’re discovering, gun damage itself.
Even current AI gunner ranges with a good crew can make certain matchups extremely difficult for the fighter. A Mariner is basically a raid boss if its not uptiered.
