Massive Uptier Problem with F104A and other same br planes

For around a week, I had been playing with the American F-104A that is currently placed in 9.3 BR. Around 7 of 10 matches that i played were usally uptiers, until getting the F-104A i always had more than enough money to buy every plane i was grinding for. Now that i am playing with F-104A that changed, since i am always dying to a plane that shouldn’t be on my match.

I have two ways of fixing this on my mind, which are:

1. Upgrade the weapon and defense capabilities

  • Add AIM-9L’s (preferably) or atleast AIM-9G’s.
  • Add flare and chaff.

2. If there is not enough players in that level, add bots as there are in the dev server. (More likely to happen)

It is so frustrating to play with uptiers that have excellent missiles when you don’t even have anything to defend yourself against them. Instead of having upper tier planes in the match we should have bots for both teams. I don’t think it will be hard to implement as dev server already has bots that can be quickly implemented to the main game.

These are the two ways i can think of, feel free to express your toughts or tell other ways of possibly fixing this uptier issue.

This is technically correct - you have a 75% uptier chance for every match. The question is always if you have a 0.3, 0.7 or 1.0 uptier match. A match below an uptier of 1.0 is always also a slight downtier vs the enemy team; at least from a technical pov as you will have (at least in therory) in a 10. 0 match also some 9.0 enemies.

As a friend is abusing this 9.3 F-104 frequently to sealclub - i am not sure that you will find a lot of support for your proposals.


Well i see Russia’s Mig 23’s which i think is a huge tier jump and a variant of Mig 21. (i don’t remember the version but i’m sure it is 10.3+ because it has R60’s that i can not dodge and they can keep up with the F-104) Chinese A-5C (Premium Jet) which even tough it is 10.0 has Mach 3, 35G MISSILE (how is this legal? :D) pretty balanced… and Italy’s little A10 that is named AMX at 10.3 BR, which has AIM-9L’s that pull 30G’s. How am i supposed to survive against those??

BR 9.3 is in a loop hole which i think can only be solved with two changes which i said above.

I’m not sure if the USAF one was even in service when the AIM-9L was built, But it could get AIM-9D’s since an F-104A stationed at China Lake did test them, Hell we’ve got it’s colour scheme in game (also heard rumours of I think the AIM-9J as well).

Now the ROCAF one I’m not sure if it carried a better missile although I think I’ve heard mention in other places for a newer AAM so if that missile was the AIM-9L it could get it.

But for countermeasures I’m not sure either carried them.

On another not the USAF F-104’s/ ROCAF A model should never have been lowered to 9.3 they were fine at 9.7, So you won’t find much support asking for a better AAM if the aircraft are kept at 9.3 so there’s that.


I mean at that point it’s massively going to increase in BR anyways whilst also losing your speed advantage.

You have speed to defend yourself with. The only all aspect you could face would be from su25, a10 is mixed mm. You should have zero issues keeping distance from their front.

Sure, add flares and go to like 10.3. Add aim9l and go up to like 11.0.

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Nah tbh the F-104 should go back up with none of these changes, because as is it clubs 8.3s in downtiers, there’s nothing you can’t fight effectively until like 11.0.


No thank you. It already sucks hardcore to play against the MiG-21 as is. The SU-25 missiles are OP AF for such a slow moving little brick.

It can stay right were it is or go down. One out of every 15-20 matches is not against MiG-21s currently. That makes this really unfun to play.

Take a quick second to think about how other planes at 9.3 deal with these uptiers, and how these poorly armed, subsonic gunfighters deal with it infinitely worse than a plane with enough thrust to just avoid situations where you might have a missile shot at you (Or simply outrunning it).

No. We need decompression, and the F-104s are prime examples of why it is needed. That it can see Venoms and F-84Fs is more problematic that it seeing high G missiles.


Then in this case, the problem lies with the MiG-21s and Su-25s being low in general. Decompression is becoming less and less avoidable, lest we end up in more situations like this.

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massive skill issue

ROCAF one could carry x2 AIM-9Ps but, it was late model of F-104A that has same engine with F-104S so, need to replace like Bf 110 C-4 to C-7 or implement as different aircrafts in the game.

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It has only one strategy, and someone with intelligence can counter that playing against most people. It dives, and you roll. It presents a similar challenge that we are seeing at top tier, we don’t come off the deck.

What typically happens in longer matches with the 104 is that one of two remains. The enemy team mops up base or other ground targets which let’s them win. The 104 fails to do much in the grand scheme of things.

It’s not a dog fighter. It doesn’t have the missiles to combat higher tears, it absolutely doesn’t have the countermeasures. It can’t compete after making a single turn. If you look up how to play it, the same thing is said over and over - climb and support your team. Don’t expect kills but expect to help damage and then run.It literally only has speed, and that benefit is lost if it goes up in BR.

Y’all can’t have it both ways. If it moves up with the MiG-21 and Su-25, it can’t compete at all. If it gets moved to it’s own BR and the MiG-21 and Su-25 get moved up, it’s another Me-262 issue were it just never has a place it belongs.

The planes only area of effectiveness is against the high 8.0 and 9.0 range. It takes a patient player to even be effective at that range. The plane has one strategy,.and that’s not for most.


Exactly, thats why i think they should add bots to a match if there is not enough same BR rating players.

F-104S TAF does quite well on 11.0, it would be ok to move there.

You can barely outrun a 10.3+ Mig 21, only if you dive going 1500 kmh and i would like to point out that, that missile goes with Mach 3 even from 2 kilometers that missile can kill me.

That’s just boring. Ask them for a seperate mode but I refuse to play against dedicated bots. With eleven years in, that would be the end of the game for me.

Honestly, the F-104A with x2 AIM-9Ds at 9.7 would be really solid. Even at 10.0 it’d still be pretty alright because you have such high amounts of speed.
Would also be nice to have the F-104C get it’s fuselage pylons for sidewinders, as the F-104C did have them.


I would agree with your points. The F-104A/C Didn’t use flares/chaff as far as I can recall, and they definitely shouldn’t get either to move them to a higher BR. Instead see what different types of weaponry were tested, give that to them, and move them to 9.7/10.0.
The F-104’s biggest threats are missiles and missiles alone, if you’re a good pilot you know how to avoid them.

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