Major Update Concept/Pitch - "Call of Mahabharata" - The Indian Nation & Ground Tree

[slowmo21too]

Ok, To first answer your question, The Bhishma SK and Bhishma Late were created earlier into the making of the TT, before a proper deep-dive into the Bhishma tanks and their Marks. And I agree with most of your suggestions, and will include/implement these in a TT update soon.

Now per your request, The Arjuns!

Arjun: India’s Desert Archer

Arjun Tech Demonstrator:

One of the earliest photos of Arjun, this shows arjun when it was just a proof-of-concept tech demonstrator in 1989 after consulting with Krauss-Maffei to create a working prototype. The turret looks blocky due to experimentations with composite armor, however the chassis looks near-identical to the production-model Arjun Mk.1.

Arjun Mk.1 Prototype:

The Arjun Mk.1 (P) is one of the first prototypes of the Arjun, being built in 1993, having a more turret closer to the final model now features a raised gunsight, and was key in testing the new 120mm Rifled Cannon, and would lead to the creation of the PPS (Pre-Production Series) Arjuns, PPS-1 - PPS-14.

Arjun Mk.I Early:

The Arjun Mk.1 Early refers to the first limited-production run Arjuns based on the PPS-15, the final prototype and basis of the standard Arjun tank, PPS-15 built 1997 and the production run beginning in 1999. The Early Arjuns still used the sight found on the prototypes although now embedded in the turret 2A4-style and now has properly equipped GEN.1 Kanchan Armor, and now sees the inclusion of the commanders sight and roof MG.

Arjun Mk.1:

The Standard Mk.1 is the regular serial production of the Arjun tanks from 2003-2018, with slightly improved Armor, a much improved gunner sight, and the shifting of the smoke grenades to the rear of the turret, and better electronation of equipment (although this doesn’t really matter in-game), and is now equipped with the SAMHO gun-launched ATGM.

Arjun Mk.I VIRCM:

The Arjun Mk.1 VIRCM is a Arjun Mk.1 equipped with a soft-kill APS system designed by the Israeli-Company Elbit Systems, seeing its smoke launchers replaced with spectral smoke launcher mounted to the front of the turret and now is equipped with a IRCM emitter on the turret as well, similar to the T-90A’s Shtora system or the M1A1 HC.

Arjun Mk.II Prototype:

The Arjun Mk.IA prototype was first seen in 2018, being a Heavily-Upgraded Mk.I tank, seeing the addition of ERA and Composite blocks to the front and sides to the tank, a (TW) mine-plow, a upgraded gun and engine, new electronics, suspension, turret bustle, and GEN.2 Kanchan Armor. However with these additions, the Mk.IA prototype looses the commander’s sight and roof MG.

Arjun Mk.IA:

The Arjun Mk.IA is the most advanced Arjun tank to date, first seeing production in 2019, and is slowly replacing the Mk.I Arjuns currently in service. The completed tank now features a 12.7mm RCWS, a LWS, upgraded commander’s sights, and over 70 additional upgrades to the tank.

Tank-EX:

Tank-EX refers to the Tank-EX program, a military venture to bring India’s T-72 tanks to the new era by retrofitting modified Arjun turrets onto them. Tested in 2002, the program was cancelled due to being strategically unnecessary, expensive, and would prove difficult to preform maintenance on. Interestingly, The Tank-EX programs would see the testing of Israel’s LAHAT missile, however it was also abandoned, replaced by India’s SAMHO.

Karna:

*(Note, “Tank-EX”, and “Karna”, refers to the same tanks, however due to their being 2 variants, I chose to use the names to separate the variants, Similar in concept to how Abrams tanks are called “M1s”, but are also known as “Abrams”.)

The Karna tanks are the parade variants of the Tanks in the Tank-EX program, now seeing the inclusion of rubber tracks, a commander’s sight, and roof MG.

M-46 ACS (Arjun Catapult System):

The Arjun Catapult System is a Self-Propelled Howitzer that is in service by the Indian Army, replacing the previous Vijayanta Catapult Platform. Using a Arjun MBT hull with the turret replaced by the same rearward-facing Soviet 130mm M-46 Howitzer, the Catapult System sees much improvement in its protection and mobility. 40 systems are currently in service alongside the K-9 Vajra SPH.

Here ya go! Again if you have further questions or I mentioned something incorrect, please let me know! And if you want similar explanations about other vehicles/series, do say!

[ChieftainWarrior]

@slowmo21too

And if you want similar explanations about other vehicles/series, do say!

Could you go over the Vijayantas? I can’t find any reliable info about the differences between each variant

[Yontzee]

India is just one of those nations that should have been its own tree. It’s a bit rougher for air-side but if Israel can work then why not. I think Gaijin is going a little too far into the whole “sub-tree” thing. Canada would’ve been a better sub-tree for the UK as there’s not enough vehicles for Canada to be sufficiently its own tree. The Canadian leopards would’ve fit fine after the Vickers Mk. VII. It’s completely possible to see an Indian tree in the future, they’ve done major shifts before and one can take Gaijin’a word with a grain of salt as they’ve shifted there positions on stuff they said was “final” quite a bit before.

Side note, I hope they take the Zorawar chassis and make an IFV platform out of it.

[BSpiel8]

It certainly has potential. I think the tree would probably be better if it started at rank IV, perhaps pull in the Sherman SA-50 and Sherman D-56T and a couple other similar BR vehicles like to how Israel has the 4.3 TCM-20 at Rank IV. In addition, we can add Bangladesh and/or Myanmar to the tree since I believe they have pretty decent relations with India.

Either way, there are some people who believe that all possible tech trees and vehicles have been exhausted for addition, doomposting about how the game is going to die or certain trees will stop recieving support. Maybe top tier will reach a standstill at the rate we’re going, but there are still plenty of WW2 vehicles left to add for existing nations, and even unimplemented trees such as this one show huge potential for postwar and beyond.

[Tim_TeaDrinker]

@Yontzee

Canada would’ve been a better sub-tree for the UK

Or Jordan, cause Jordan has modified Challenger mk2 and CVR(t).

Jordan has more British-like vehicles than India.
It would be very stupid if Jordan doesn’t come to Britain. "But Britain will Receive India " 🤣

[Raiden_Black]

Till date, no foreign countries operate the T-90MS … its a common misconception that India operates them.

[Mytho-GR1]

Did you not read

The exports of it have been a issue

[Tim_TeaDrinker]

Kuwait wants T90MS

We have only one Kuwait vehicle in game.
)
)
)
in British TT 😁

[dotSHINI]

1 word canada, honestly doesnt mean anythign where vehicles already are

[FlyingOstridge]

2A4M killed any chance of an independent Canadian tech tree.

[Raiden_Black]

Many armies considered the T-90MS … Egypt & lot … but nobody ended up inducting.
The gravest skimping the Rus did was not investing in the reverse speed upgrade.
Last country to sign a fresh T-90 order was Iraq in 2016 and they chose the older T-90S with Relikt side skirts.
Moving forward, 2024 onwards, even less armies will consider inducting/signing fresh new T-72 based derivatives (shoestring budgeted defense programs can consider used tank market with heavy rebate). Exceptions like armies having less-equipped rivals or considering strict weight limit criteria can still consider new T-90s but, then again light/medium tank platforms are on the rise again and are offering pretty good armor capabilities utilizing modular solutions and are not hampered by carousel autoloaders or crippling reverse speed.
A better way Russian MBT export effort can move forward is to re-utilize the bustle-loaded Burlak turret on the existing hulls with transmission upgrades (less R&D cost compared to totally new architecture).
Armata program is still stuck, and the turret armor might be concerning. And Russian defense themselves have committed now to focusing on T-80 upgrade, coz the turbine is the best engine they’ve got which can be further upgraded to rival NATO contemporaries. (Sep’23, the CEO of Uralvagonzavod, Alexander Potapov, said that they had been tasked by the military to resume manufacture of the T-80.) Speculations are that, some form of Burlak derived turret mated to T-80 hulls with upgraded GTD might be a possibility offered for Rus army in future (same as stated in the above export segment).

[Tim_TeaDrinker]

The only reason of resume T-80 is just Their factory remained intact. afaik the T-80 more expensive to produce and service and it eat more fuel than T-90.

They didn’t want to lose a lot of money, to to convert the plant to produce other vehicle.

[Raiden_Black]

The engine scenario is also there, there’s been speculation, that the ageing V-12s have reached the absolute upgrade limit and the “newer” X-engine has size restrictions and still not totally cleared for widespread use.
And the 6TD is out of the question.

[slowmo21too]

Of course! Here’s a comprehension of the Vickers Mk.I “Vijayanta” Tanks Used by India:

Vijayanta: Victory for India!

Vijayanta Mk.I:

The Vijayanta Mk.1 was the first indigenous tank built by India. Albeit a license-built Vickers Mk.1 MBT, it was a large step forward for India and would lead to the true indigenous tanks seen today, first being built in 1963 and entering service in 1965, the tank would see service in the Indo-Pakistan war and are still even used today, although only as static batteries.

Vijayanta Mk.I Marconi:

The Vijayanta Mk.1 Marconi would see 70 Mk.I tanks see the retrofitting of the British Marconi SFCS 600 Fire Control System, seeing minor improvements to the firing capability.

Vijayanta Mk.IA:

The Vijayanta Mk.IA is a upgrade to the tank, seeing upgrades to its FCS with the indigenous AL 4420 Tank Fire-Control System by Bharat Electronics and improved sight mounts and muzzle reference system, alongside the further indigenization of parts used in the tanks and minor improvements to the tank in general.

Vijayanta Mk.IB:

The Vijayanta Mk.IB is the second mainline-version of the Vijayanta, now seeing the introduction of a Barr & Stroud laser-rangefinder through the upgraded AL 4421 FCS and computer, improving accuracy and hit probability.

Vijayanta Mk.IC:

(NOTE: Infornation Regarding the Vijayanta Mk.IC is sparce, so some information may be vague or ommited.)

The Vijayanta Mk.IC was the final variant to enter service, seeing minor general upgrades and would see add-on armor to the turret and hull to compensate for the now-apparent obsolescence of the Vijayanta tank.

Vijayanta Mk.2:

*(Note: “Vijayanta Mk.2s”, and “Vijayanta Mk.I Bison(s)”, refers to the same tanks, being that the upgrade program was codenamed “Bison”, but the tanks themselves are called “Mk.2s”.)

The Vijayanta Mk.2 was the product of the late-80’s “Bison” Upgrade Program, in and effort to fully modernize the Vijayanta tanks, the Mk.2s would borrow technologies from the Arjun program, specifically the newly-developed “Kanchan” composite Armor, being added to the turret and hull; The addition of the Yugoslav SUV-T55A fire control system and thermals; A modern land navigation system; And the engine of a T-72 to counter all the new weight. 4 total prototypes were created and tested in the 1990’s, however issues such as overheating and the breakdown of parts would lead to the abandonment of the program in 1997.

Vijayanta M-46 Catapult:

The Vijayanta Catapult is a Self-Propelled Howitzer that was used by the Indian Army from 1981-2021, being a lengthened Vijayanta hull with the turret replaced by a rearward-facing Soviet 130mm M-46 Howitzer. 100 systems were built and saw deployment in Operation Parakram in 2001 and Operation Zafran. Now-retired, the system has been replaced by the Arjun Catapult System and K-9 Vajra SPHs.

Vijayanta GBT 155:

The Vijayanta GBT 155 was a Joint-Venture with the Royal Ordinance to create a 155mm Self-Propelled Howitzer for the Indian Army, seeing a Vijayanta tank with its turret replaced by a custom-built turret equipped with a 39-Caliber 155mm howitzer by Royal Ordinance. Although being thoroughly tested, the project was abandoned and was never adopted into service.

Its finally here! Sorry it took so long, I’ve been busy with life stuff, but now I’m free again to answer questions and explain!

Also…

A MASSIVE main post overhaul is coming soon!

[slowmo21too]

Also added the M-46 ACS to the Arjun explaination!

[ChieftainWarrior]

Amazing, thank you! Hope to see full suggestions for these vehicles as well, would be cool to see them even if we don’t get an Indian tree.

[Rambolf]

Vijayanta M-46 Catapult: le modern archer

[Rasray]

That would be the Arjun M-46 Catapult, Vijayanta one is the cold war archer :D

[Rambolf]

Man… i would have liked the arjun added compared tonthe t90s…

[FlyingOstridge]

@slowmo21too

Vijayanta M-46 Catapult:

The Vijayanta Catapult is a Self-Propelled Howitzer that was used by the Indian Army from 1981-2021, being a lengthened Vijayanta hull with the turret replaced by a rearward-facing Soviet 130mm M-46 Howitzer. 100 systems were built and saw deployment in Operation Parakram in 2001 and Operation Zafran. Now-retired, the system has been replaced by the Arjun Catapult System and K-9 Vajra SPHs.