its more of the fact it faces 10.3 every game. 7/9 games i’ve played today have all been uptier. its not competitive nor fun. the m735 nerfs only made 9.3 japan and other nations worse, and they were already hell to play in the beginning. I think the FPS and g should be 9.3, as any other br would make them overpowered or dogshit. But the fact that 10.3 premiums exist make 9.3 the worst br in the ENTIRE game
2 Likes
They are at the same BR thanks to compression, we simply don’t have enough BR places in order to differentiate those miniscule differences.
On how many battles is that data calculated from ?
Dart performance doesn’t really matter against 8.0 vehicles, considering they are literal paper to each and any of those. Being really fast with decent optics and thermals is far more dangerous combo than a slightly better dart.
That being said, dart, LRF and great thermals would basically shit on 8.0 vehicles, which isn’t an ideal scenario for players enjoying those as well. This is why I said shuffling BRs won’t solve anything without decompression.
Adding yet another wheelie boy to the mix certainly won’t help guys back down at 8.0.
Don’t get me wrong, those things are super strong against 8.0 vehicles as well and shouldn’t be able to see tanks that are often times without stabilization, darts and with slow reloads, gun handling, mobility, etc.
This is yet another proof that shuffling BRs of vehicles without decompression isn’t a solution to the bigger problem, and you’ll just move it somewhere else and for someone else to cry about it.
It’s like someone is suggesting to take away better round from T-90A and leave it with 3BM42 at 10.3 to copy Bhishma, which would add yet another strong tank for Type 16 to struggle against.
3 Likes
On how many battles is that data calculated from ?
Like over a 100.000.
Dart performance doesn’t really matter against 8.0 vehicles, considering they are literal paper to each and any of those. Being really fast with decent optics and thermals is far more dangerous combo than a slightly better dart.
Which applies to pretty much every single one of these vehicles at 9.0.
Post pen is also important, go try the M300 if you disagree.
That being said, dart, LRF and great thermals would basically shit on 8.0 vehicles, which isn’t an ideal scenario for players enjoying those as well. This is why I said shuffling BRs won’t solve anything without decompression.
But as Gaijin doesn’t decompress you also just can’t freeze everything and not change anything, at 9.0 there are plenty of things that are the same as a Type 16, at least these things have no armored and die to almost anything opposed to 9.3 fighting 10.3.
Don’t get me wrong, those things are super strong against 8.0 vehicles as well and shouldn’t be able to see tanks that are often times without stabilization, darts and with slow reloads, gun handling, mobility, etc.
Yet they do it consistently already with a dozen vehicles, suddenly now there needs to be a line drawn? We can have 9 vehicles cause problems but a 10th one is too much?
It’s clear 9.3 is a lot more suffering as 8.0 at least.
This is yet another proof that shuffling BRs of vehicles without decompression isn’t a solution to the bigger problem, and you’ll just move it somewhere else and for someone else to cry about it.
I know that, you know that, we all have known this for the better part of a decade, but Gaijin refuses to do this because they want people to suffer seemingly, so we gotta work with what we have which is stupid compression due to developer incompetence and refusal to listen and just faking transparency.
A better shell is also an option, decompression would solve a plethora of issues, or a change to matchmaking at the higher BRs to lower it to 0.7 after 9.0 as it’s obviously a mess.
Looking at the 60 degree angle pen (the most important value), I’d say it’s perfectly adequate.
I didn’t have any issue using the inferior M728 APDS at 9.0 so I’d say this seems a bit overblown.
1 Like
Can you link the site ?
It does, but some stuff you’ve listed don’t come with clean thermals, which as I said, are much bigger advantage than a slightly better shell, at least in my eyes.
I think most of those things will bounce back over time.
If you lower something by a bit, it might start shredding things and see itself being raised in BR once again and you’re at square one.
Having 10 rather than 9 vehicles is obviously worse for 8.0 players, so it’s more about which lineup do you like more. In most cases there’s no possible outcome that won’t hurt someone in the process.
Better shell should be a much more reasonable solution to this problem, as it will make the vehicle in question more competent in uptiers while keeping it away from 8.0 shitboxes, so it’s kind of a win-win scenario.
Looking at the 60 degree angle pen (the most important value), I’d say it’s perfectly adequate.
9.3 sees double the uptiers compared to 9.0.
3 Likes
Correct, but M735 isn’t bad enough for the FPS to be moved down.
M735 should get a buff, or the tanks that use it should get a better shell.
The Type-16 FPS was moved from 9.0 to 9.3 for a reason. BRs are currently too compressed to allow for it
to be moved down.
Also, whenever someone brings M735 up, they never mention the XM-1s, it’s quite odd.
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Can you link the site ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/197zkly/analyzing_unofficial_server_statistics_uptiers/
It does, but some stuff you’ve listed don’t come with clean thermals, which as I said, are much bigger advantage than a slightly better shell, at least in my eyes.
Thermals are an advantage, but beyond that gen 1 2 or 3 isn’t what makes or breaks it.
Having 10 rather than 9 vehicles is obviously worse for 8.0 players, so it’s more about which lineup do you like more. In most cases there’s no possible outcome that won’t hurt someone in the process.
Problem here is that Japan has nothing from 9.3 to 11.0 and both their premiums are 9.3 which is objectively the single worst BR in the game to be stuck at.
I’d much rather be stuck at 8.0 vs 9.0 than 9.3 vs 10.3.
And when you look more in depth, both US and Russia lack an 8.0 lineup so they’re not affected, only Germany is really playing 8.0 but has a strong lineup + maybe Israel/Sweden.
Better shell should be a much more reasonable solution to this problem, as it will make the vehicle in question more competent in uptiers while keeping it away from 8.0 shitboxes, so it’s kind of a win-win scenario.
A better shell is going to put it all the way at 9.7 however.
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they never mention the XM-1sit’s quite odd.
People also don’t bring up the M60s, how odd.
XM-1 is also every bit as fast as a Type 16, also gets a laser rangefinder, also gets thermals but lower gen, gets 40 degree of turret rotation vs 30 degrees, 10 degrees of depression vs 6, 29 hp/t vs 22 hp/t and it’s an actual MBT with 200-300mm of armor.
People obsess over wheelie boys but ultimately wheels are a disadvantage.
See, OP, you’ve made a critical error.
You’ve failed to notice that M735 is not a Russian round, and is therefore not a priority to fix, even though it’s as simple as reverting the change back to the old one.
12 Likes
Well, I did acknowledge that it’s a NATO round and that it will get nerfed based on a sloppy napkin, which does seem to be pretty close to what actually happened.
9 Likes
As you see in the screenshots, the round actually got buffed. Sure that the flat pen got decreased but 60 degree pen which is most important at top tier went up and the round got long rod modifiers instead of short rod. The only issue M735 have is low spalling but that is shared with DM13 and DM23 aswell.
the 60 degree pen went up by 2-3mm at all distances in exchange for 60mm of flat pen and 30mm of 30 degree pen at any distance. That is not a buff.
4 Likes
Still a buff,even by few mm,as you wouldnt really need that flat pen at that BR so angled pen is more important for you. And the long rod instead of short rod modifier is huge buff.
Losing over 60mm flat pen, 30mm angled pen, in return for 3mm at 60 is hardly a buff, and not everything you shoot at is a 60 degree slope either.
And by the end of it, post pen is still crap, and you still get uptiered 8 out of 10 times.
7 Likes
I agree with the post pen being crap, but uptiers arent round issue lol. There are worse rounds on that BR than M735.
Aside from XM578E1 there aren’t any worse rounds I’m aware of at 9.3/9.7. M735 is already a relatively mid round at 8.7 and garbage at 9.3.
6 Likes
Uptiers are a round issue if modern vehicles are denied modern shells and have to rely on a shell from 70s but still have to fight against modern vehicles with modern ammo in return.
3BM25 underperforming for years in the corner
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at 8.7 and not 9.3/9.7 like the XM-1 and Type 93
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