Faster, more missiles loaded at once, missiles are more competent vs the enemy they face, launcher can be fired on the move, cannon is genuinely better, what more do you need?
The BMP-2M is better than the M3A3 in this game, in every way.
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When the alternative is to either inhibit movement when the launcher is up or for it to be damaged if you do?
Why’d you have to give it away like that?!?!
I think its quite a bit faster (not sure) the gun is much faster firing (with a comparable APFSDS round) and the missiles are better, as they can be fired on the move with better penetration than the TOW-2A, but I guess it doesn’t have a top-down missile.
Brother, can you find me an example of a bradley’s launcher breaking just because the crew drove with it open? Or are you gonna be like the russia fanboys when I ask them to show me videos of the R-73 doing the things they claim it can do?
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i mean it suggests it but I think depending on the arguments you had made you probably needed to be a bit more clear that you’re saying such
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They are either lying or you are mistaken.
Enlighten me, how are you so sure?
Honestly it wouldn’t be the first time that War Thunder ignores equipment damage in vehicles, (E.G going full afterburner for an entire ARB match), and also I don’t see why the fold in speed couldn’t be at the very least increased, so you can move faster than a crawl with the launcher out.
Also I posted it because there’s no reason to gatekeep information in a discussion, especially if it’s crucial to the topic.
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This is another thing. If i’m wrong and it can be damaged by going too fast unfolded, then the speed could at least be increased. I’m sure a bradley could move 10 mph with its launcher unfolded.
How?
I read something from a bradley crewman and he said the vibrations in a bradley can definitely damage the TOW launcher. (if its out)
Yeah, but im sure that it’s a bit faster than what’s in game at the very least. If im booking it and going 30mph, it makes sense that it’s folded, not like i’ll have time to stop to fire a missile anyway, but at 10 or less? I should definitely be able to drive unfolded.
in the same guy’s thing he said there’s a warning if you have your TOW missile thing unfolded above 5 kmp/h or 5mp/h (I don’t remember)
Yeah, but theres a difference between a warning system and literal mechanical failure, yk? Like, a fighter jet is gonna give you a “check gear” warning far before the plane is fast enough to damage the gear.
Or at least thats what comes to my mind. I really could be wrong.
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I appreciate the feedback, Mista. It’ll help me for future discussions.
I’ve taken into account these.
Here’s my full cross analysis:
Speed Forward: BMP-2M by ~3 - 4 seconds to 50kph.
Speed Reverse: M3A3.
General mobility in tight spaces and around hills: M3A3 due to neutral steer and better transmission.
Gun: Effectively identical.
BMP-2M has 99 and 114mm 0 - 60 degrees.
M3A3 has 100 and 116mm 0 - 60 degrees.
Fire rate: Both not <200rpm. In a 2 second engagement, both will put at least 7 rounds down range. If gunner is fragged, that 2 second engagement turns to 4.
Missiles: Top attack goes to M3A3.
Tandem: BMP-2M. Tho allegedly TOW-2A should have 1000mm of pen or more and that’s a historical issue. Once fixed I consider them tied if that’s a sincere issue.
For their BR both are 800mm or more in penetration, which is more than enough for what both are facing.
Missile maneuverability: About the same, the extra speed of BMP-2M requires a bit more practice.
Defensive: M3A3, missiles can be launched from behind cover.
Scouting: Both sub-par to light tank options: M1128 and CCVL for USA, and 2S25 for Soviets [either].
I find firing on the move for missiles pointless personally, the accuracy drop for only having 8 missiles isn’t worth it IMO.
You may disagree with my conclusion, and that’s fine.
You may say that you prefer 10 rounds down range in 2 seconds, and that’s fine.
Having seen the major complaints of fire rate, I almost never see people complain about 7 rounds down range in 2 seconds.
It’s largely Warrior and even that’s rare these days. Partially cause it’s 8.3 probably.
And it’s okay if we disagree here.
The cross analysis is itself so I looked up players.
I checked Cavenub, I checked countless others that played both M3A3 and BMP-2M, all sharing similar performance.
Cause with this performance from a consistent player, I can’t see this angle either.
Bruh. The BMP-2M fires significantly faster, which is an obvious benefit.
Right, now only if TOW-2Bs were anywhere near reliable.
Not necessarily. The BMP’s missiles work better against its targets than TOW-2As ever work against T-series tanks.
And wobble into the ground.
You can still fire while moving though, or stop quickly and fire your missiles.
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Another one bashing the 2S38 :‘D wow, how original.
Never saw this while using or in videos.
Fire rate is given its own thing.
sorry if it seems like it, im more trying to say the M3A3 isn’t competitive for its current scenario
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And @Exocetta
Kind of following here. Let’s see if we can clear some things up.
First, in my time we usually called it lap loading. There are several reasons why it is dangerous. First, the cartridge is made of paper and if you break it you would get propellant all over the tank. Second, if you are on the move it’s easy to get knocked around the turret and with a tank round in your hands a loader would have a really hard time with it. Finally, if the turret gets penned while you are lap loading it makes the situation much worse.
Second, I was an officer so I never allowed it on my tank. However, I’m highly confident that on some of my tanks it probably happened in combat. Combat is all about balancing risk and a fast reload could save your life. Still, usually a bad idea.
Finally, if we are talking about load times in the M1A1 and M1A2 the ones in game are much too slow. 5 seconds is pretty standard for a loader. 7 seconds is the MAXIMUM a noob, terrible loader is allowed. And the pros could easily and consistently beat five seconds. A gold star maxxed out crew in this game would be like 3.5 ish seconds to match reality.
I know why they don’t do this. Gaijin has lately maintained that they use load times to “balance” tanks. Just remember that top tier in this game is fake AF. And if you start arguing about reality you will run into the fact that the protection is fake, the damage penetration is nerfed to hell on Russian and Chinese tanks (carousel loaded tanks that are penned are K-kill ammunition detonation a HUGE majority of the time) and the bullets are all fake. In order to make this game “accurate” you would have to have access to classified information. The sources used result in ballpark guesses that are fine and all, but not “accurate” at all. Whenever Gaijin asks for “documentation” to make changes to vehicles they are asking for things that are illegal to change things that are wrong anyway.
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