How does Gaijin know that the turret was reinforced?
If sources from the prototype phase are considered insufficient because “the M1A2C did not exist at the time” and the vehicles only carried weight dummies, then the exact same argument should also exclude the use of those sources for modeling the upgraded turret.
If the lack of exact values did not prevent the modeling of the upgraded turret protection, why can the same evidentiary standard not be applied to the hull, especially when there are sources indicating a broader armor modernization program?
Here is a source but only about the UBB (under-body blast)
2 Likes
Another Technology Demonstrator Tank for the bloody English.
it very visibly looks different and ballast was required for the trophy which being planned to be put on basically every sepv3
so basically, because the hull isnt visibly different from previous models gaijin has to assume that nothing changed, unless clear sources are provided that say otherwise
it is different IRL, Gaijin have just modeled it wrong.
So far we have many sources:
-
https://www.gao.gov/assets/nsiad-90-57.pdf#page=9
“Heavy armor (DU) added to hull and turret”
-
https://www.asafm.army.mil/Portals/72/Documents/BudgetMaterial/2026/Discretionary%20Budget/Procurement/Procurement%20of%20Weapons%20and%20Tracked%20Combat%20Vehicles.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com
(pdf page 122, volume 1-98)
"Description:
… The M1A2 SEPv3 incorporates turret and hull armor upgrades, mine blast improvements, reactive armor tiles, lightweight belly armor, improved countermine equipment, Improvised
Explosive Device (IED) jamming equipment, a Total Integrated Engine Revitalization (TIGER) engine, an upgraded transmission, an Auxiliary Power Unit (APU), improved power generation & distribution,
Ammunition Data Link (ADL) for smart munitions, Embedded Training, Blue Force Tracker, Block 1 Second Generation Forward Looking Infra-Red (FLIR) technology, and improved computer systems with
Line Replaceable Modules (LRMs) to include microprocessors, high-definition color flat panel displays, increased memory capacity, Gigabit Ethernet, and a new operating system designed to run the Common
Operating Environment (COE) software. The Abrams Tank Production Program funds the costs required for the daily operation of the production plants producing M1A2 SEPv3 tanks and components…
-
https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub/reports/FY2020/other/2020DOTEAnnualReport.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com
(pdf page 69)
-
https://blastinjuryresearch.health.mil/assets/docs/injury_prevention/fy16/vehicles/Enhanced_Underbody_Crew_Protection.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com
“weight reduction and crew protection improvements for under-body blast
(UBB)”
-
M1A2C Hull armor missing - #160 by TheDidact99
This might be very important source:
Appendix A → Table A-1 “Characteristics of Models of the Abrams (M1) Tank”.
“Heavy armor added to hull and turret”
This document does not prove the existence of SEPv3 armor upgrades by itself.
However, it does effectively refute the moderator’s argument that:
“special armor can mean skirts”
or that:
“crew survivability could mean anything”
because the authors of the Congressional Budget Office report use very specific wording:
“Heavy armor added to hull and turret.”
rather than a vague expression such as:
“survivability improvement.”
1 Like
i think i might got something
US general army military law states :
“a covered system may not proceed beyond low-rate initial production until realistic
survivability testing of the system is completed in accordance with this section and the
report required by subsection (d) with respect
to that testing is submitted in accordance
with that subsection”
doc
doc
P.g 2683
govinfo.gov
17.02 MB
This is a pre production M1 sepV3 during live fire testing
Why would they slap the steel plates on it if not to simulate the add on armor
Before it enter production
This proves the hull got extra armor
1 Like
gotta create as much outcry like last time then the devs with actually do something
1 Like
They also added the second half of the trunnion in the breech
1 Like
Yes, we should follow the example of the Chinese, they achieved their goal.
2 Likes
The moderators actual “official stance” on this problem is becoming extremely ambiguous, and if anyone knows how or who to report that to maybe should… if we remember 3 years ago, it was acknowledged 5 vehicles were tested with this armor but did not enter production that way, and there is not hard set evidence of it doing so. Now, with this V3 fiasco, the developers and moderators started off with “if they have no armor values to work with, they cannot add it to the game” (which I disagree with since they added it to the turret, but fine.)
Now, over the past few hours, some of these mods just seem to be shutting down bug reports with the claim that this upgrade never even happened to begin with… this seems to be a reversion in their beliefs of what is going on from previous reports, and may indicate an actual legitimate bias and irresponsibility within some of the moderators.
That being said, I think the biggest problem with this whole situation is yes, I can see why the SEPV3 hull armor is ambiguous (if we forget about the fucking weight simulators, tonnage, and references to improvement) but I don’t think ANYBODY can actually deny that the M1 has the same hull armor as it did in 1979… with the improbvement programs that mention the hull (just not where) in the early 2000s, 2006, and now with the SEPV3, who tf could possibly believe that? It is a modular armor package that can simply be removed and replaced, and the original armor design contains large enough air gaps that inserts could simply be dropped in without modification. But that’s not specific enough for Gaijin to take as an argument
6 Likes
Which is entirely correct.
Special Armor = Composite Armor
1 Like
Speaking of which… my special armor side skirts bug report still doesn’t show any signs of being fixed despite some others, like my turret ring bug report getting fixed
The truth is that it looks very well coordinated, from the official devblog post being odly specific about only turret armor improvements to the rapid shut down of every report with obscure explanations.
It’s not too far fetched to assume that they likely got a memo from the devs themselves, essentially saying they are gonna try to argue about this, but shut it all down.
1 Like
Too bad for the fellow Americans, should’ve asked the Russian to outfit their Ubrums with the famous Kontakt-5, Relikt ERA technology
1 Like
I agree with you but this AI slop bug reporting spam and getting hostile with them is just going to make things worse. People need to chill out. If they’re already out to get us, we need take a break and keep looking for sources and evidence…
1 Like
We already have the evidence on the forum. We just need someone to connect the dots and put everything into a single report.
I gathered several pieces of evidence into a single post to make it easier to follow and understand.
2 Likes
dw bro i and a bunch of ppl are working on it
1 Like
