I saw someone say that M833 had 440mm of pen in one of those threads. Tbh the M1 is fine where it is but it could use the extra 20mm of pen provided by M833. It only suffers against things in an uptier (and pretty much every mainstream MBT at 10.7 can pen the turret)
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I mean M833 would be nice for it and a buff but you’d definitely see a spike in usuage as well as performance.
most 10.7s can pen each others turrets TBH.
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M774 struggles more than contemporaries as it’s the lowest penetrating round for the mainline MBTs to my knowledge. 20mm more in penetration wouldn’t make that much of a difference either.
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People say between 30 and 50 MM more penetration which would make a difference.
Also it has the lowest penning round and is still a fantastic MBT lol, it’s got so many advantages to it which make the difference
The only 2 things it has is reload speed and mobility. But even then the leopard 2a4 matches it (yeah the m1 abrams reloads 1 second faster but its not a be all end all). The T-80B is also incredibly mobile, has decent armour, and a good shell. The aforementioned 2a4 has decent armour, really good mobility, good turret handling , etc etc.
What advantage does the base abrams then have against these? Nothing really. You cant take a hit, and you cant dish out a hit because your round is worse than the rounds for 9.0 or 9.3 tanks. Sure you got mobility but the abrams is so fragile that someone looking at you means you’re most likely dead and you don’t have the fire power to really take advantage of it. Any hit to your turret gives the chance of an ammo cook off, so you don’t have good survivability and you have a glaring weakspot at the turret ring.
Should it get m833? Yeah, it should. Should m833 overall be buffed if its ahistorical? Yeah, it should. It won’t make the base abrams good in any way shape or form but it will make it more usable.
Leopard 2A4 does not match it in mobility.
The Abrams is overall more mobile.
the reload makes a huge difference for the BR considering an expert leopard 2a4 still has a 1.1 / 1.3 second slower reload than expert abrams last I checked.
Same gun and turret handling on both 40.
T80B has worse
- optics
- reload
- mobility. forward fast sure but loses 50 percent of it’s mobility (backwards)
- worse gun handling (by miles)
- worse turret traverse.
Sure it’s a good MBT top 4 or 5 at least for the 10.7 area but it is not better than abrams.
- 1 you can take a hit, no idea where you’re pulling that you can’t from.
- 2 you can dish it out extremely well lol. the 5 second reload paired with the mobility. middling armour and ofc the subpar round still make it a devestating prospect if you actually know how to use it.
Sorry what? you’ve still over 200 angled pen and near 400 flat pen, sure 372 ain’t the best but it’s not like you’re rolling around with 250 pen on it.
you can definitely dish out the punishment with it lol.
You do realise the abrams can shoot clean through the UFP of a leopard 2a4 and kill the entire crew? at almost 2000 meters?
M883 would take it up to over 400 flat pen as far as I know, even with teh bare minimum of a 30MM increase in pen it still takes it up to 402 flat and last I checked about 230 odds of angles which means it would be an already strong platform with a stronger round whcih would likely see it bump up to 11.0. same as if leo2a4 got DM33
Base abrams BR for BR is one of the best abrams lol?
Looking at your statcard it shows you’ve not even used the M1 ?
the M1 KVT is my latest usuage of the M1 abrams in I must add an 11.7 - 12.0 lineup. and it’s a near 2.0 KD lol
21mm Pen difference, and it’s M833 not M883
Also let’s get back on topic for the SEP v3
I mean if it was implemented properly as the other person said, as wlel asthat it’s still a near 400 pen round and 227 angled pen which is arguably more important.
I mean the Sep V3 will come when it does. folks acting like the US ground tree isn’t banging is hwo this changed over to the M1
Only 1-1.1 second slower, not 1.3.
Wrong.
Abrams has worse elevation speed than Leo2.
40 degree on Leo2 vs 24 on Abrams with ace crew.
If its a semi decent placed shot you will get crippled instantly and most likely not be able to retreat/ return fire.
Leopard can also one shot you through turret ring, lower frontal plate and drivers port.
Abrams isn’t special in this case.
In game It has 380-390 flat pen at best.
Not really, 120mm DM33 heavily outperforms M833, only M900 gets close/beats the DM33 that is fired from L/44 cannon.
Mine has more than 2K/D ratio but lets not act like its an invincible tank.
25 vs 27 horse power per ton. Its not a massive difference like going from a T-64B to a T-80B.
Also for the reload rate you act as if 6 seconds or however long the experted 2a4 reload rate is, sucks when it clearly does not. Its not like going from a 7 second autoloader to the HSTV-L in terms of speed. Sure it will help overall, but the amount is overstated.
Never said the abrams had bad gun handling. On a side not though, the spalling of the 105mm isnt as good as the 120mm.
The “terrible” optics of the T-80B is completely exaggerated. They are fine. Both the T-80B and Abrams have Gen 1 thermals with good FOVs and zoom as i recall. The T-80Bs mobility, like its optics, isn’t terrible. Its 100% usuable and miles ahead of the T-72s. Sure it has worse gun handling, it is a Soviet MBT, but 3BM42 essentially being able to pen any tank at its BR with relative ease makes up for it.
I honestly do not understand where you got the idea that the base abrams has any noticeably good armour. It does not. At 1000m, 3BM42 has no issues from my understanding going through the turret cheeks of the abrams. DM23 may struggle a little bit but its more than capable of doing so. Even DM63 105mm can pen the turret at 1000m. Maybe its just me but the earlier abrams and even the top tier abrams just cannot take a hit unless its the turret cheekk, and even so the parts touching the mantlet are incredibly easy to pen.
Sure, once again, the abrams has good mobility, but its not so much superior to your contemporary MBTs and light tanks and IFVs that you can consistently get to those flanking areas where dart penetration doesn’t matter as much. In fact, any MBT or tank or any vehicle in game benefits from such gameplay as long as it has mobility and a good enough gun.
The 2a4 and T-80B can do the same thing lmao. Sure the trolly UFP might save you time to time but it isnt fullproof.
120MM DM33 is significantly better than M833, and more compable to M829. M833 is quite literally just a slightly worse DM33 105mm i dont understand why you and gaijin think of it as a massive upgrade.
What on earth are you smoking lmao. I’ve used the abrams plenty enough. I dont think its the best abrams BR for BR but thats just me ig
if you’re going to spread a lie abt me at least make it believable. The U.S. tt was the first tt I’ve ever grinded.
Maybe the sepv3 will save the abrams line, who knows. If it has good hull armour then sure add it. But if its implemented as a sepV2 with a different model then its so over.
The Abrams line doesn’t need saving, since the current SEPs are still among the best top tier MBTs.
But the SEPv3 should absolutely be added because it looks cool.
The SEPs aren’t bad but theyre not great. More mediocre at best. They arent Ariete level bad but I would much rather have a 2a7V or a Strv 122 over it, or a BVM. Once again im not saying theyre bad or bottom of the barrel but there are much better choices.
The sep V3, im not sure if it would bring any meaningful changes over the Sep v2 though. It would still have the same hull armour iirc and still be heavier. I would prefer the sep V4 in that regard even if it was just a prototype, it would have better hull armour among the upgrades it would have gotten
Hull armor was improved it’s just no one knows by how much. Turret armor was further improved due to the thicker turret cheeks. If the v4 was a modification (like how Russian MBTs can get extra ERA or how the BMP had that add-on armor kit) then I could see it working just fine.
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The devs are going to make the same mistakes with the sep v3. There’s a reason why the moderators keep censuring anything Abrams related. See this thread.
try recreating same topic in machinery of war discussion
What? They are easily top 5 MBTs at top tier. Arguably even the third best only after the 2A7s and Strv 122s.
Sorry, but this sounds more like a player issue and not a SEPv1/v2 issue.
Both SEPs are arguably already better than the BVM.
This is the main issue yeah, they can give it any value they want and we can’t prove them right or wrong.
Weight increased due to new electronics and ERA, sorry no better hull armor for you. Gaijin 2026
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What? Theyre are easily not in the top 5 MBTs at top tier. Arguably below that of most but not all. Off the top of my head, I’d argue that, in no particular order, the 122b+, 122B PLSS, 2a7V, 2a7HU, BVM, and the Type 10/ TKX and even the Leclercs are just straight up better than the abrams. Sure the abrams has some advantages here and there, but overall it isnt that great to play. When i play an abrams, especially the SEP or whatnot, im never like “wow what an absolute wonderful MBT this is the pinnacle of engineering” and then proceed to have a good time.
Who knows. Maybe your the bad karma of ground battles whilst im just… average.
Couldn’t remember but i do know it makes a difference.
Hence why i say i the leo is possibly better / the best 10.7 in game with abrams being behind it.
Its marginally better in areas.
That’s the same for everything in game lol.
I’ve not had that issue with my abrams, i usually don’t leave myself in a position to get taken out like that.
No i know, but i mean the other dudes making it out as if abrams round is useless, while it’s not great its certainly not a bad round in general.
Worst for the BR pen wise but its not unusable.
Yeah i know but the other guy ahain mentioned artificial pens further up, assumed he meant give it marginally more penetration.
Like it should have
The M900 is a lot better than the Dm33 mate. By quite a lot lol.
Not saying its invincible lol, at no point have i even mentioned it being invincible.
But it’s extremely good for its BR is the point.
Dude said its not usuable further up which is total nonsense.
Until they fix the armor on the Abrams, this is false.
The Abrams is the only tank I know of that can be frontally penned by the BMPT