25 vs 27 horse power per ton. Its not a massive difference like going from a T-64B to a T-80B.
Also for the reload rate you act as if 6 seconds or however long the experted 2a4 reload rate is, sucks when it clearly does not. Its not like going from a 7 second autoloader to the HSTV-L in terms of speed. Sure it will help overall, but the amount is overstated.
Never said the abrams had bad gun handling. On a side not though, the spalling of the 105mm isnt as good as the 120mm.
The “terrible” optics of the T-80B is completely exaggerated. They are fine. Both the T-80B and Abrams have Gen 1 thermals with good FOVs and zoom as i recall. The T-80Bs mobility, like its optics, isn’t terrible. Its 100% usuable and miles ahead of the T-72s. Sure it has worse gun handling, it is a Soviet MBT, but 3BM42 essentially being able to pen any tank at its BR with relative ease makes up for it.
I honestly do not understand where you got the idea that the base abrams has any noticeably good armour. It does not. At 1000m, 3BM42 has no issues from my understanding going through the turret cheeks of the abrams. DM23 may struggle a little bit but its more than capable of doing so. Even DM63 105mm can pen the turret at 1000m. Maybe its just me but the earlier abrams and even the top tier abrams just cannot take a hit unless its the turret cheekk, and even so the parts touching the mantlet are incredibly easy to pen.
Sure, once again, the abrams has good mobility, but its not so much superior to your contemporary MBTs and light tanks and IFVs that you can consistently get to those flanking areas where dart penetration doesn’t matter as much. In fact, any MBT or tank or any vehicle in game benefits from such gameplay as long as it has mobility and a good enough gun.
The 2a4 and T-80B can do the same thing lmao. Sure the trolly UFP might save you time to time but it isnt fullproof.
120MM DM33 is significantly better than M833, and more compable to M829. M833 is quite literally just a slightly worse DM33 105mm i dont understand why you and gaijin think of it as a massive upgrade.
What on earth are you smoking lmao. I’ve used the abrams plenty enough. I dont think its the best abrams BR for BR but thats just me ig
if you’re going to spread a lie abt me at least make it believable. The U.S. tt was the first tt I’ve ever grinded.
Maybe the sepv3 will save the abrams line, who knows. If it has good hull armour then sure add it. But if its implemented as a sepV2 with a different model then its so over.
The SEPs aren’t bad but theyre not great. More mediocre at best. They arent Ariete level bad but I would much rather have a 2a7V or a Strv 122 over it, or a BVM. Once again im not saying theyre bad or bottom of the barrel but there are much better choices.
The sep V3, im not sure if it would bring any meaningful changes over the Sep v2 though. It would still have the same hull armour iirc and still be heavier. I would prefer the sep V4 in that regard even if it was just a prototype, it would have better hull armour among the upgrades it would have gotten
Hull armor was improved it’s just no one knows by how much. Turret armor was further improved due to the thicker turret cheeks. If the v4 was a modification (like how Russian MBTs can get extra ERA or how the BMP had that add-on armor kit) then I could see it working just fine.
The devs are going to make the same mistakes with the sep v3. There’s a reason why the moderators keep censuring anything Abrams related. See this thread.
What? Theyre are easily not in the top 5 MBTs at top tier. Arguably below that of most but not all. Off the top of my head, I’d argue that, in no particular order, the 122b+, 122B PLSS, 2a7V, 2a7HU, BVM, and the Type 10/ TKX and even the Leclercs are just straight up better than the abrams. Sure the abrams has some advantages here and there, but overall it isnt that great to play. When i play an abrams, especially the SEP or whatnot, im never like “wow what an absolute wonderful MBT this is the pinnacle of engineering” and then proceed to have a good time.
Who knows. Maybe your the bad karma of ground battles whilst im just… average.
Couldn’t remember but i do know it makes a difference.
Hence why i say i the leo is possibly better / the best 10.7 in game with abrams being behind it.
Its marginally better in areas.
That’s the same for everything in game lol.
I’ve not had that issue with my abrams, i usually don’t leave myself in a position to get taken out like that.
No i know, but i mean the other dudes making it out as if abrams round is useless, while it’s not great its certainly not a bad round in general.
Worst for the BR pen wise but its not unusable.
Yeah i know but the other guy ahain mentioned artificial pens further up, assumed he meant give it marginally more penetration.
Like it should have
The M900 is a lot better than the Dm33 mate. By quite a lot lol.
Not saying its invincible lol, at no point have i even mentioned it being invincible.
But it’s extremely good for its BR is the point.
Dude said its not usuable further up which is total nonsense.
It’s a jump mate and it’s still something the M1 has going for it.
Also the T64B is a lot less mobile than the T80B.
If i can fire an extra round every minute its a clear advantage.
Just becuase you don’t think it is doesn’t mean it’s not.
Firing a full second faster is clearly an advantage allowing you to take the initiative in more situations.
Spalling is based around risidual penetration of the darts.
Not on calibre, as much as i hate this and disagree with it I have been proven wrong a few times.
Zenturion has a video on it.
The magnification of the abrams is miles better tham the 80B.
While the 80B has okay magnification its mot close to that of the abrams or leopard.
No one is saying otherwise.
Again its capabilities shot up after the reload buff as well.
It’s mobility is better than that of other russian tanks, chinese and the challangers.
Ariete is believe though slower may have better P2W ratios making jt more mobile.
Though that may just be the top tier ones.
Oh and its more mobile than merkavas forward too.
The loss of gun handling, turret traverse, reverse mobility, reload and optics is the tradeoff for that round.
Also most nato MBTS can pen it with relative ease too.
Its good but just lacking in too many areas to be tbe best.
3Bm42 can go through almost every 10.7 turret cheek at 1000 meters lol.
Also read what i said, extremely middling armour. Does not mean it’s good it means that it’s literally not good.
Nor bad it works at ranges and if you wiggle.
It’s not gonna stop a 460 pen round.
The abrams certainly can take a hit, i know because ive about 1200 games between them all lol, they’re not as armoured as say the leopards at their BRs but they make up for it in other areas.
It literally does allow you to beat the majority bar lights to these areas, in which case your dart is more than sufficient to take out said light.
Hence my point you’re crying about the round but the only MBTs it can’t lol pen tbe UFP are the soviet and Chinese ones.
In which case it out does them in other metrics.
I am mentioning it as it should be, not how it is in game as well as that a person above mentioned artificial pen given to it so I assumed, maybe incorrectly they meant give it more pen.
I was using stathsark as your acc on the actual game didn’t show up.
Then that was an error. My bad.
Not a lie lol, used statshark which showed you’d used the other abrams not the M1 for some reason, as I’ve said before on other threads it’s not always accurate.
Your name doesn’t show up in game for me when I search it.
Or I’d not have made the mistake.
what? lol the top tier abrams are still fantastic tanks dude.
I’m tired of people pretending the abrams suffers cause it has one turret ring weakpoint lol.
Sorry what lol. they’re better than the top tier chinese, french, japanese, british , isreali and italian MBTs.
OFC behind the 2A7 as it’s a far better MBT than literally every other in game.
They’re also better than the BVM at 12.7 man.
Not really mate, the 2A7 and that’s about it.
dudes negative in most his tanks TBH mate that may be why-
lol no.
M900 has what near 40 to 50 more flat pen and a good chunk more angled pen.
DM33 is noticeably worse than M900.
My response shows the whole picture I’ve stated time and time again statistically the abrams is one of the best , in some folks opinions the best, 10.7 in game.
What extreme claim have I made lol?
that the round is the worst for it’s BR and it has middling armour? but great mobility, optics, reload etc?
It’s literally one of the best 10.7s dude.
the only one which is marginally better , which people debate, is the 2A4.
not to mention the one thing that is meant to make it be more survivable, the blow out ammo racks don’t work anymore due to gajins way of thinking how they work and not how they actually work
Mobility + firepower + gun elevation angles just make the SEPs much higher skill ceiling tanks. (Also much more fun to play imo, but that is subjective).
In the hands of an average/below avererage player the BVM might be better, but in the hands of a skilled player the SEPs are better.
My Abrams blowout panels have been working perfectly fine.
Like stated before, not a be all end all. Its not a overwhelming advantage. Also, what about terrain, crew level, obstacles, map choice and so on and so forth. Sure its higher number which is better but you cant just act as if it is, as previously stated, an overwhelming advantage. Since you did not pick up the idea of hyperbole, i gues i have to spell it out for you: i was saying that the difference was not akin to that of the difference in mobility between the T-80B and the T-64B.
Are you just making up things that ive supposedly said? When on earth did I say that the abrams reload rate was a disadvantage? You think of it as a be all end all, sure, why not. But in my expierence the difference has not changed my opinion of the tank. Its nice to have, yeah dont get me wrong but seriously? Your loader is most likely going to be gone the second you get shot, so lets not pretend you’re going to have that reload rate for long.
I think spookston’s crusade about the HSTV-L’s gun and its postpen kinda prove that gaijin just doesn’t care tbh. Its sad but i dont think its going to change any time soon.
I personally prefer the T-80B’s sight over the abrams at closer to mid range because of the lower magnification, but yeah the better zoom can help.
Its a pretty good round though. Sure the turret traverse leaves plenty to desire along with gun handling but its still good enough to get the job done.
Also the last time i checked i dont think the T-80B has bad armour. From my expierence ive tanked more rounds in the T-80B rather than the base m1.
You said “it can take a hit” when the abrams really cant, man. Sure, youre hull down 1000 to 2000m from your target and you’re wiggling your turret. Touche, you could hypothetically take a hit. In most situations though? Not really. Especially at 500m or less.
Thats your expierence, its just as universal as mine. Doesn’t necessarily mean either of us are right or give an accurate representation of how it plays.
By quite literally maybe 2 to 3 seconds max against the 80B and leo 2s, not to mention the prototype leos. Most of these light tanks also have enough fire power to punch right through you or rip you to shreds easily with an autocannon. I guess thats applicable to all MBTs but its very apparent with the abrams from expierence with flanking or getting to key points first.
Being insulting really isnt a good way of convincing people that your right. It just makes you look like a sorry prick. Where have I stated that i wanted it to essentially be an object 292? If i wanted to lolpen soviet and chinese MBTs I’d play the 120S or something. What i want is a round that i dont have to pixelaim at certain areas within the weakpoints of mbts to actually have a chance of penning. Is that “crying” over wanting a lolpen round or just me wanting a decent dart?
Unfortunately it isnt how it should be. Im no American 105mm APFSDS expert, but if it can be proven with historical sources that m833 is underpreforming in war thunder then it should be buffed.
Quite literally is. Just checkes statshark and what did you know? The m1 abrams is there on the second page.
I wouldn’t call them fantastic mate. Theyre decent but i wouldnt put them in the top 5.
Forgot to mention the lower front plate, the upper front plate, and the comically larger amount of crap on top of the turret which is a HE magnet. It kinda necessitates a hull down only gameplay from a distance which i am not fond of playing ever game.
The israelis, italins and british i can understand, but you think the abrams is better than the leclerc, which essentially has the same qualities as the abrams but with slightly worse armor and slightly worse turret traverse? Or the type 10 with just as good mobility with an even better reload rate, or the god damn T-80BVM with its really good armour, good reload rate, good turret handling and optics? I may not have all the tech trees grinded out but you don’t really have to do when the performance of the vehicle is this clear cut.
Not even the STRV 122B+ or PLSS, are you serious?
You got me. Wow i dont play this game everyday and have several thousand hours. Big woop. I have a life and other interests and play this game casually. What an checkmate by you! Well played good sire! I tip my cap to you. Maybe i should just stop playing the game with such a wonderful counterclaim made.
cough cough your opinion. Not “some folks” opinion. Its okay to admit that, its not a deal breaker. From my experience and how a lot of other people see the base abrams. Considering the only 10.7 MBTs there are are the ariete (P), T-80B, the various leopard 2a4s, and the abrams along with the challenger mk3 making any listing of the “top” 10.7s is quite misleading as the population is way too small to be of any value. I and many others value the T-80Bs and Leo 2a4s advantages over the abrams. It doesnt make the abrams shit or garbage like how you have been trying to portray my PoV but i digress.
You have, quite literally, been claiming the abrams is the best 10.7 and the sep one of it not the best top tier tanks in the game. I dont think you could make a more polarizing theme than that.
There are 6 MBTs at 10.7 so if you want me to make a list and check it twice youd have to allow for 11.0s to mix in as well. But solely at 10.7 i believe the leopard 2a4 and the T-80B.
