M114A2 Command and Reconnaissance Carrier- Forgotten Vietnam Veteran

Would you like to see the M114A2 in-game?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
At what BR would you like to see this vehicle?
  • 5.0 or lower
  • 5.3
  • 5.7
  • 6.0 or higher
  • I said no
0 voters

Overview
The M114 was an American light reconnaissance vehicle developed in the early 1960s to complement the larger M113. The M114A2 variant replaced the original .50 cal primary armament with the much more powerful 20mm M139 autocannon. The type served briefly in the Vietnam War before being replaced by the M551 Sheridan.
In essence, it’s a T114 with the turret of the R3 T20 FA-HS.
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History

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The M114 and M114A1
The M114 was developed in the mid-1950s as a lighter counterpart to the M113. While the M113 was designed for general troop transport, the M114 was primarily intended for command and reconnaissance, as the name would imply. The M114 was much smaller and lower-profile than the M113, with an emphasis on speed over carrying capacity. Like the M113, the M114 was both amphibious and air-transportable. It featured a 3-man crew, with a driver, commander/gunner, and observer. To enhance the firepower of the vehicle, a 2 or 3 man anti-tank team could be carried. However, the M114’s small size meant the crew compartment was rather cramped, so this wasn’t common. It entered service in 1962. In 1963, an improved version was developed featuring a fully enclosed M26 cupola instead of simply an open hatch, allowing the .50 cal primary armament to be fired from inside the vehicle while buttoned up. This version, designated the M114A1, quickly replaced the base M114. Around 615 M114s of all variants were produced.

The M114A2
In 1968, it was determined that the M114A1 was insufficiently armed. A new version designated the M114A1E1 was developed featuring the 20mm HS.820 autocannon (designated M139) on an M27 cupola. The M27 was identical to the late-production hydraulic M26 except for its armament. The first M114A1E1 was produced in 1969, being standardized as the M114A2. While the M114A2 could still technically carry 2-3 passengers, the larger calibre of the primary armament’s ammunition made the interior even more crowded and this likely never happened. 50 M114A2s were produced, seeing combat in Southeast Asia. Unfortunately for the M114A2, this was around the time that the M551 Sheridan was entering service. With its excellent mobility and extremely powerful 152mm cannon, the Sheridan was simply a much more effective vehicle than the M114. Beginning in 1969, the M114 and M114A1 were phased out of active service. Despite the massively upgraded firepower the M114A2 offered, it proved too little too late and followed it brothers into reserve service in 1972. The M114 and M114A1 would be officially retired in 1973, with the M114A2 following in 1975. However, it wasn’t until the early 1980s that the last vehicles were actually taken out of service.

Design

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Hull
The hull of the M114A2 is identical to the T114 (BAT) in-game. It only provides protection against full-calibre autocannon rounds frontally and small arms all-around. However, the vehicle’s high mobility and low profile can make it difficult to hit.

Turret
The M114A2’s cannon is mounted in the hydraulic M27 cupola. The armour of this low-profile cupola is difficult to find information on. However, it likely only provides protection against heavy machine guns. The M27 provides 360 degree traverse. The gun can depress at most 13 degrees (226mils) over the left side of the vehicle, though various parts of the vehicle limit this number, with the rear machine gun reducing depression the most, to +8 degrees (140 mils). Max elevation is 60 degrees.

Mobility
The mobility of the vehicle is very good, with a maximum speed of 58/13kmh in forward/reverse, 160hp engine, 7.11 tonne mass, and 22.5hp/tonne. The M114A2 also features amphibious capabilities with a maximum speed in water of 5.5km/h.

Armament

Spoiler

The primary armament of the M114A2 is the 20mm M139, the American designation for the Hispano-Suisa HS.820 AKA Oerlikon KAD. This is identical to the gun found on the R3 T20 FA-HS and fires the same ammunition. The cannon is fed by a 25-round box magazine and 75-round ammo chute with 16 additional boxes stored inside the vehicle for a total of 500 rounds of ammunition.

M114A2s were also typically equipped with a rear-mounted 7.62mm M60 machine gun with 3,000 rounds of ammunition for use by the observer.

139
The M139
While many vehicles were developed utilizing the M139, it was only on the M114A2 that the weapon entered service

M114A2 in War Thunder

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The M114A2 in-game would be very similar to other SPAAs around 5.3/5.7. Design-wise it is extremely similar to the AMX-10P, with anti-aircraft capability being most similar to the R3 T20 FA-HS, which of course shares the same gun.
The mobility would be lower than the R3, however, limiting anti-tank capability, and the M114A2 has lower ammunition capacity.
Compared to the AMX-10P and SUB-I-II, the M114A2 is extremely similar though it again has lower ammunition capacity and lacks APDS ammunition. However, the M114A2 is somewhat more mobile than these vehicles.

Gallery

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The first T114 prototype, dramatically different from the production M114


The original M114A1E1 prototype

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M114A2 buttoned up

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Don’t worry, the M114A2 has plenty of elevation


The M114 compared to an M113

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M114A2 in 1972

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M114A2 in Vietnam, 1972

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A pair of M114A2s somewhere in Southeast Asia, 1975
Note the AN/TVS-2A night sight on the lead vehicle

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M114A2 in Bamberg, Germany, 1973


M114A2 at the Musée des Blindés in Saumur, France
Note the cannon is not original

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Depression limits of the M114A2
To prevent accidental injury to the observer, the gun was not able to traverse into the “safety zone” without first disabling a safety switch inside the vehicle
Depression limits:

  • A: -226mils
  • B: -51mils
  • C: -180mils
  • D: -173mils
  • E: -141mils
  • F: +140mils

Sources

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M114 Command and Reconnaissance Carrier
M114 CRV Command and Reconnaissance Vehicle
ACRC M114
ACRC M114
The M114 ARV
Cadillac M114 Command

6 Likes

+1 to give the US a high volume of fire SPAAG in the 5.0 area. This or any other 20mm armed vehicles like it would be great first steps in allowing the US to no longer rely on the dual 40s.

3 Likes

such a vehicle is desperately needed around 5.3, as the 50 cals from earlier SPAAs are no longer effective vs super props and early jets, and 40mms cannot track fast moving aircraft.

1 Like

An American AMX10P, why not? Id say its more like an IFV(thats what it does IRL lol) but it can definitely work on most maps at least.

1 Like

Of course it was never a SPAA…

1 Like

another guest from future to the ww2 vehicles? no, thanks.

1 Like

So? The AMX-10P wasn’t an SPAA either.

1 Like

Yes, the M114A2 is a officially a Command and Reconnaissance Carrier, which would generally be considered an IFV even though at the time IFV was a separate vehicle class.
But in-game it would be clearly an SPAA, just like the AMX-10P and SUB-I-II IFVs or the SdKfz 222 and Weisel command and reconnaissance vehicles.

1 Like

It was purely a recon vehicle, not an “IFV”. It looks like an IFV, but its about half the size of one. There was barely enough room in the back for 4 dismount scouts, and only if they were good buddies. I used to play in one as a kid on Ft. Bliss.

Two bad game structure decisions don’t make it right.

1 Like

Like I said,

1 Like

Except that is incorrect. At the time, or even today, The M114 was a scout, not a infantry carrier. Different mission and different vehicles.
Game wise, it should be a “light tank”, since that was its role, just like all the IFV, MICV, APCs in the game should be since that is far closer to their historical role than “anti-aircraft”.

1 Like

nah, we know how bad are the sub I-II and the amx-10. Its armor is too light against aircrafts, and i believe there’s way more suitable spaa options already suggested.

+1, really disgusting that this isn’t in-game yet but multiple other countries received SPAA they didn’t even make or use

Also, I’m pretty sure this is supposed to have an ammunition feed of either 75 or 100 rounds, definitely not only 25. Unfortunately, I don’t have the operator’s manual, so if someone has it, that would be great.

Spoiler


Jane’s Armored Fighting Vehicles 1976

1 Like

Yeah, 100 rounds would make sense, seems way too much space for a mere 25 rounds. But the sources I could find were pretty consistent on the 25 rounds. Could be 25 rounds is simply how they’re stored in the vehicle and multiple boxes are loaded at a time.
The manual is available online but it costs like $30 which I ain’t spending lol

Exactly, too many recce vehicles already ingame as some kind of SPAA with Scouting.

Wiesel is not an SPAA! Italian fast boi is not SPAA!

Great suggestion OP! I’ve wanted this in the game since the R3 T20 was added, so this is a definite +1 from me. However, I feel the need to point out a few things you forgot to mention:

  1. The M114A2 had a hydraulic turret traverse mechanism, which let it traverse at 94°/s. Elevation was also done hydraulically, although I can’t find information regarding the elevation speed.

  2. The M139 had a selectable rate of fire, which let the gun fire at either 200-250 RPM or 800-1,050 RPM. It could also fire single-shot or five-round burst.

  3. There was an ammunition chute on the right side of the gun, which could hold 75 rounds. This isn’t including the 425 rounds stored in the vehicle, so the actual ammunition capacity of the gun was closer to 500 rounds.

  4. The gunner used either the M120 telescope (6x w/ 5° FOV) or the AN/TVS-2A infrared sight (7x w/ 6° FOV). However, in order to aim the gun, he would have to open the hatch.

  5. In US service, the M139 used two separate rounds, those being M599 HEI-T and M601 API-T, but it could technically use any of the rounds that the HS.820 could. M599 was a steel projectile that contained 120 grams of explosive filler and had a muzzle velocity of 1,505 m/s. M601 weighed 111 grams in total, which primarily consisted of a 77.5-gram tungsten-carbide core and a 0.45-gram incendiary pellet (the other 33 grams includes the body, windshield, and tracer). Muzzle velocity was 1,039 m/s. Penetration point-blank at 0° would be either 45mm or around 58-60mm depending on whether the devs model it as AP or APCR.

  6. This is more of a fun fact than anything else, but the ground pressure of the M114A2 is around 5.22 psi, or 0.367 kg/cm^2. For reference, the M18’s ground pressure is 11.9 psi, or 0.835 kg/cm^2.

Sources:

TM 9-2320-224-10 Operator’s Manual for Carrier, Command and Reconnaissance: Armored, M114 (2320-860-2349) M114A1 (2320-987-9536) M114A1E1 (2320-937-6189). Washington, DC: Headquarters, Department of the Army, November 1964.

TM 43-0001-27 Army Ammunition Data Sheets Small Caliber Ammunition FSC 1305. Headquarters, Department of the Army, April 1994.

https://youtu.be/opKSpWjueG4?si=7GWM_HJfi4TUvhFk (This video by The Chieftain goes over the XM808 ”Twister”, which uses the same cupola and gun as the M114A2. Skip to 23:43.)

6 Likes

Thanks, glad someone got the manuals!
I will note, though, that the fire rate for cannons is always the higher option in-game, and that the R3 already uses M601 and M599 (erroneously called M594) so the ammunition is identical.

1 Like

I didn’t know M599 and M601 were already in the game. Kinda strange they never went with the commercial Oerlikon ammunition.

The M163, Bradley, and BMP-2 (among others) can change their fire rate in-game, you just need to set up a key bind for it. The reason why I brought up the fire rate selector on the M114A2 is because the devs could add it as a feature.

I was also planning to add some information to this mix from the 1969 Training Circular “TC 23-22”.

Training Circular Images here

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3 Likes

30° gun depression, awesome.