Having to use ChatGPT to write out your War Thunder topic is dumb to begin with. The parcel is dumb.
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I mean I can understand people using it as a translation tool (wouldn’t do it myself, but I can understand other people doing it), but if someone does that they should at least tell what it’s saying.
However I don’t think this is AI used for translation.
Ah yeah, didn’t think of that.
tbh, I don’t really like the Leopard 2A4, but it has nothing to do with the tank being bad at all. It’s just too plain. Looks like something a kid who was told to put a tank together in art class using clay would build.
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2A4 with DM33 doesn’t belong at 10.7.
Always a fun read seeing people complain about one of the best 10.7.
I’m expecting 2A7 suffer threads soon enough.
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I’m using AI for translation because English isn’t my native language, which is obviously a common situation on the forums. What difference does the gun make if the main issue is the Battle Rating?
So, in your opinion, a tank with a poor gun that has to grind for the powerful DM33 belongs at 10.7, where it has to fight against top-tier vehicles at 11.7?
The DM23 shell is completely ineffective against ERA. You have to meticulously aim for weak spots like commander’s cupolas and driver’s hatches just to get a critical hit on medium tanks, while this vehicle gets one-shotted with a shot to the hull. It’s even worse than the previous T-72M1, which is a whole 1.4 ranks lower. Go check for yourself! The T-72M1 has much more effective armor for its BR.
Considering that the initial matches are played with the stock DM12 HEAT-FS and DM13 APFSDS rounds, spading this thing is a huge problem. This tank leaves no room for error. One bad hit or a non-penetrating shot sends the tank straight back to the hangar. There’s no point in arguing that this tank is good. It’s completely worthless, and its high Battle Rating has no justification.
A lot, because 120mm DM23 (2A4) and 105mm DM33 (2AV) both have similar pen.
Nah the 2AV is fine at 10.0, hell it will also be fine with 10.3 even if I don’t really agree with the increase.
Just like the 2A4 is fine at 10.7.
Yeah you have to aim for weakspots on the Soviet/Russian MBTs at that BR or flank them. Luckily enough the 2A4 has all the tools it needs to effectively do both.
Nah this is just a massive skill issue. Once it’s spaded the 2A4 is one of, if not the best 10.7 tanks in game.
Nah it’s battle rating is plenty justified. Almost every tank at that BR has a shitty stock grind and 10.7 in general has bad matchmaking. However that doesn’t change that when spaded the 2A4 is stupidly good and one of the best 10.7s.
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I had to read this multiple times before realizing you really wrote this down.
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Its a good tank. Good turret mounted machine gun to off helis, lights and SPAAs. Alot fire power. I mean check the pen 440mm… At this BR. Even more than the A4 which is over one BR step above. Gun handling ok. Speed ok. Armor very good. Foolproof vs most autocannons and even bounces maingun anti tanks shells if not aimed properly. Just the reverse speed is bad.
If T-72M1 would be a German development, its BR would have been never that low.
Literally funnier than Pangolin Takes™
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For a 8.0 tank, yes.
T-72A basically has little to no hull armor when compared to common 9.3 shells like DM33 105mm and copies.
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Of course you only list the flat pen of that round so that it suits your argument lol.
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Thodin being objective, mission impossible.
I doubt he has praise for even a single German vehicle.
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Leopard 2A4: Explain why it deserves 10.7?
You claim that the Leopard 2A4 is one of the best 10.7 tanks when it’s spaded. So, explain how this “miracle” is better than the Leopard 2K?
- The 2K has thicker armor, is faster, and has an autocannon that helps in close-quarters combat. The 2A4 only has thermals. At these BRs, thermals aren’t a privilege, but a necessity to even stand a chance against Abrams and other tanks.
- Compared to the M60 120S, which, by the way, sits at 10.3, the Leopard 2A4 loses in every way except for speed. The M60 120S has an M829A1 shell with 600 mm of penetration at 100 meters, and it also has thermals.
- It’s simply unfair when I have to aim for weak spots on a tank covered in ERA, while I have nothing in return but a DM23 shell, which is completely useless.
This tank has absolutely awful horizontal gun traverse angles. If an enemy gets on your side more from behind or just behind you, you can’t kill them without turning your hull, and your vertical aiming immediately goes haywire. It’s ridiculous; this kind of flaw shouldn’t exist at such a high Battle Rating.
This entire situation with the Leopard 2A4 has nothing to do with skill. It’s just bad balance. This tank has one of the largest silhouettes at its BR, and any hit—whether to the turret or hull—leads to an instant death.
Objectively, the Leopard 2A4 is worse than the 2K in every aspect except for thermals. Yet, the 2K is at 10.0, and the 2A4 is at 10.7. Arguing about “skill” is illogical here, as players have no alternative. Unlike the 2K, which is at the end of a line, the Leopard 2A4 is a mandatory part of the tech tree that you have to grind to move forward.
This is a perfect example of terrible balance. All it would take is to remove this tank from the setup, and the entire German Rank 7 would become a comfortable 10.3.
So, please, name a single objective reason why this vehicle deserves its 10.7 Battle Rating.
For the love of everything that is holy, STOP. LOOKING. ONLY. AT. THE. STAT. CARD. FOR. ARMOR.
Go look at the protection analysis. It’s common knowledge that stat cards give little to no info about the armor of top tier MBTs. This just shows that either you are incredibly inexperienced at top tier or you didn’t check your AI translation.
It just happens that mobility is one of the most powerful tools at high/top tier.
Hard to take this seriously when you don’t even know where to look to for the true armor of top tier MBTs.
Go look at it some more before talking about stuff “objectively”.
It has the best balance of armor, gun handling, firepower and mobility. You can list a lot of tanks, but usually if they are exceptional in one category, they are really bad in one of the other.
The 2A4 is either just good or great in every category.
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Leopard 2K also has 16x sight zoom which makes it a superior sniper, but no it doesn’t have more armor than Leopard 2A4 bro, the 2K has as much armor as the Leo 1 lol
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Ain’t anyone playing Leo 2K because of its armour. Delusional to think it’s better armoured than 2A4, lol.
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Bro, just explain why it deserves 10.7?
I’m ready to run a comparison in the armor viewer. Let’s see how an Abrams shot to the front of the turret on both the 2K and the 2A4 plays out in the game. You’ll see that one of them gets constant critical hits and ricochets, while the other gets one-shotted with every hit.
It’s not that the tank is bad or useless. It’s simply not suited for its Battle Rating. This tank is just fodder for other nations and nothing more.
You’re right, the Leopard 2A4’s armor isn’t meant to stop Abrams shells. But this lack of armor should be compensated for in some way. Instead, the 2A4 is worse than its contemporaries in almost every regard.
The DM23 round is useless against the armor of the tanks we have to fight at 10.7 or 11.7. This tank has no effective combat role:
- Sniping: It’s impossible. From a distance, you can’t hit weak spots, and a shot to the silhouette with a DM23 often results in a non-penetration, a minor critical hit on the commander, or at best a shot to the autoloader, leading to an immediate death. And without a laser warning system, it’s an easy target for aircraft and light tanks
- Flanking: This tank doesn’t have the mobility to effectively flank. For that role, Germany has the Radkampfwagen (10.0) and TAM 2C (10.3), which are faster and have more adequate rounds like DM33 and DM63 and lower BR.
- Frontal Assault: This tank isn’t designed for this. The DM23 is useless, and the tank itself is a massive target without any armor and autoloader like soviet T-80Б - (Considering that almost always any hit will knock out your loader or set the tank on fire, you simply won’t live to see the next shot)
The problem isn’t that the tank has bad armor, but that it’s not compensated for in any way. It doesn’t have a fast autoloader like the Kpz 70, no autocannon, and isn’t even fast. This tank is worse than its classmates in every aspect, yet it sits at a higher BR.
This is a perfect example of terrible balance. If you were to remove the Leopard 2A4 from the lineup, the entire German Rank 7 would become a comfortable 10.3 because almost all the other vehicles don’t exceed that rating. Instead, this one vehicle at 10.7 forces the entire lineup to fight at 11.7. That’s absurd; it shouldn’t be that way.
400mm pen DM21 is just insufficient for this BR bracket.
A lot of what you type screams skill issue much more than it screams a tank issue.
It can definitely snipe, it’s more of a question if you can snipe.
- The TAM 2C doesn’t have flat out better mobility
- ffs 105mm DM33 is not that much different from 120mm DM23.
Below are the pen of 105mm DM33 and 120mm DM23, which do you think is which:
Spoiler
Again there is more to a frontal assault than just armor and penetration, you just aren’t experienced enough to use those factors.
The Kpz has a 6 second autoloader, the 2A4 has a 6 second ace reload and 6.3 second expert reload.
2A4 remains one of the best 10.7, that isn’t going to change no matter how bad you play it.
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