Lets talk about the state of Germany

Machinery of War Discussion
1289

It’s more so that Pantsir as a whole is better (notice how I never compared the VT-1 and 95Ya6 there?). The missile has a longer burn time, meaning it keeps generating kinetic energy for longer, which translates into manouverability upkeep.

If both missiles had the same deltaV and burn time, VT-1 would be superior - however we’re looking at two different methodologies clashing;

  • longer sustained rocket burn time but lower manouverability off the bat
  • higher manouverability right off the bat but shorter burn time

If we compare just the missiles alone, they could be considered equeal, BUT, Pantsir has a significantly better radar, and said radar sees further both horizontally and vertically, not to mention it has automatic guidance modes (which although not necessary, are a huge help).

Aside from that it has 3rd generation thermals, and… GUNS! Yes, the guns really make it special. It doesn’t need to waste missiles on low and close flying helicopters.

1290

not to mention the ability to defend itself from approaching missles /bombs

1291

it definitely doesnt feel like a 50G missile, thats for sure.

1292

Yeah, 95Ya6 loses all maneuverability after 11km, and it still doesn’t have enough within 11km to hit a mach 0.9 target.

Radar detecting doesn’t help the missile.
Automatic guidance is a nerf with Pantsir as it makes the missile difficult to control as without doing direct control would miss 100% of the time.

1293

I saw some leclerc get slaughtered by an m22 today

1 Like
1294

Nerf or not it doesn’t matter that thing still have best radar and range that all matters and the game still don’t let players see that thing past 18 KM

1295

Wow man, almost like… you’ve never played it and can only speak about it theoretically (i’ve gotten 14km kills with it…).

Radar detecting doesn’t help the missile.

It means you have far superior awareness, because you see further horizontally and vertically. Awareness is literally the most important part for SPAA’s lmao. You can’t utilise your missile if you don’t even know that something is there… I thought this part is uber obvious, but apparently not.

2 Likes
1296

Just cause I haven’t played the ITO since first year’s dev server 2023 doesn’t mean I can’t inquire.
At least I assume you mean ITO since I’ve stated multiple times I’ve used Pantsir and fought far more times against it cause it’s very easy to avoid getting hit.

As for awareness, I just aim my optics at their air spawn, and radar scope at 20 - 30km. Radar will pick up them on spawn, especially the heli spawns that I’m not looking at, and the thermals will have me seeing them rather quickly.

Granted, SPAA is largely useless against aircraft at the top end in general, tho I have killed a number of people that chose to do reckless tactics instead of easy kills tactics.

1297

It precisely means you can’t inquire. Your “experience” (if you can call it that) is outdated, and likely wasn’t even done so in an actual match, but in a test drive - or, a custom where nobody pays special attention to anything…

I’ve used Pantsir

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Average 1.57 K/B

My average in FlaRakRad is 1.4, whereas my Pantsir is 1.8 (indicating Pantsir as an SPAA is more effective overall… just going around and saying that nothing but the missile itself matter is selling a lie).

“But hey guys, VT-1 is soo much better because it has 50G on the statcard hehe”.

1 Like
1298

KPB with SPAA is 100% reliant on people choosing to spawn aircraft, which is not certain, thus cannot be used as a comparative statistic.
To demand that people don’t inquire into things is against the process of learning & science.

1299

It means people are opting to spawn aircraft even if they’re fighting against S-tier SPAA’s… and who spawns the most usually? Russia & US, but somehow my German SPAA (which fights both 90% of the time) is performing worse, huh, I wonder why… probably something to do with it being overall worse (but hey, VT-1 pulling 50G on the statcard will 100% recitify it lmfao).

Your anti-science argument is sad.

You don’t even know what anti-science is lmfao. You’re absolutely delusional, I still remember people having to actually explain to you what scientific method is… guess you never learned anything. Throwing around buzz words won’t magically make your arguments become reality or a fact.

Weird quoting yourself at the end.

You’re the saddest person ever.

Now I’m just waiting for you to get salty, and start flagging like you always do :)

3 Likes
1300

Not sure why you keep claiming VT-1 pulls 50Gs without supplying evidence.
You demanded that I cannot make inquiries, which is anti-science, information suppression.
A demand that I stay lacking knowledge while you make claims on VT-1 without evidence.

You never explained the scientific method to me because no one on the forums has, I’ve explained it to a few people since I’m a scientist, but that’s about it.

You can flag German players all you want, I don’t.

1301

I’ll still take your statement that it performs worse than a 30G missile with a grain of salt until I test it personally.

This is you claiming Pantsir’s missile performs worse.

Clearly you do believe in VT-1 performing better, somehow.

You demanded that I cannot make inquiries, which is anti-science, information suppression.

How? Being anti-science means rejecting any sort of actual evidence, but you haven’t got ANY to begin with apart from “I tested it close to a year ago”.

A demand that I stay lacking knowledge while you make claims on VT-1 without evidence.

One major difference… I’ve owned a VT-1 carrier since 2020, I clearly do posses both theoretical AND pratical knowledge on how it performs, I’ve seen it go from the best missile in the game, to the worst, and then to decent.

I never demanded anything of you either, you’re answering criticism with unfounded criticism (that you made up on the spot), thus, logical fallacy.

You never explained the scientific method to me because no one on the forums has, I’ve explained it to a few people since I’m a scientist, but that’s about it.

Congrats on strawmanning… wanna just admit you’ve absolutely no idea what you’re talking about? Because this is getting stale with how much you’re stalling, and pretending to know anything when you clearly don’t. You’re theory crafting as @PigtailedSlime told you already, but you reject the idea under the notion that it’s impossible for you to be wrong, that is actual anti-science :p

Your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired as well, seeing as you thought I was quoting myself, whilst I was quoting you…

5 Likes
1302

No, that’s me doubting the specific claim that “VT-1 is worse than Pantsir’s missile.” That’s it, there’s no counter-claim in my statement.
Just cause you posted that VT-1 is superior doesn’t mean I did.
I haven’t made any claims thus have nothing to provide, and you nor anyone can force me to make a claim.

Me: “All information is capable of being incorrect, especially in software that’s ever-changing. It’s anti-science to consider information as permanent, and/or always correct.”
You: “It’s anti-science to believe information can never be wrong.” a statement in full agrement with what I said in the past, and re-iterating here now.

You’ve never quoted me in this conversation BTW outside the direct replies.

1303

Because it actually is? You didn’t even take notice of me stating that I was not comparing the missiles themselves explicity, that is something you did in a reply to me…

Just cause you posted that VT-1 is superior doesn’t mean I did.

Strawman.

Me: “All information is capable of being incorrect, especially in software that’s ever-changing. It’s anti-science to consider information as permanent.”
You: “It’s anti-science to believe information can never be wrong.” a statement in full agrement with what I said.

Now you’re putting words in my mouth. You’re so disingenous that it’s actually funny lmao. Not that you ever said anything like that to begin with, so just stop making things up on the spot.

You’ve never quoted me in this conversation BTW outside the direct replies.

I’m quoting you right now, this specific function of the forum is labelled as “blockquote”… but you never use it so you wouldn’t know.

1 Like
1304

I didn’t put any words in your mouth. Are you changing your position because you agree with me so that you can disagree? That’d be a contrarian act, and the first example on this forum if indeed you’re forcing yourself to disagree with my statements that we obviously agreed on prior.
Namely the agreement that we both stated that information isn’t always correct.

How many times do I have to tell you I’m not your enemy?
Sincerity & honesty is not disingenuous, and to claim as such is provocative as well as incorrect.

And yes, I too said you were using backquote which is in the quote you did. “the direct replies.” = using the backquote system.

Also here is you posting VT-1 being superior:

You are the only one in this entire thread to post those statements.
In-fact, the first person to bring up 50G was ueberman, which didn’t make those statements.

1306

Since no one has ever said “VT-1 is superior to Pantsir’s missile” around me, and you’re the first person to bring it up, how do you expect me to interpret it?
To me, it’s you quoting yourself form a previous time because I’ve never come across that argument after the physics changes to the rest of the missiles.

The fact you’re insulting thousands of players as being nobodies isn’t healthy either.
Do you go out of your way to bully honest people that don’t speak on subjects they don’t understand? Or is this a convenience thing?

There’s no reason to insult people, to belittle them, especially when they’re curious & seeking correct information.

1307

A blind man with a walking stick can see that shadow was being sarcastic about the VT1 being better then the pantsir missles

5 Likes
1308

Then why bring it up to begin with?
Dude responded to my curiosity about the VT-1’s changes with hostility & weird stuff like that…

1309

LOL in which field?