Lets talk about the state of Germany

Common sense would also make it pretty obvious that the Leo 1 is complete garbage at 8.0, the stats just further back this up.

Sorry, but then you can’t play the tank.
The only mobility disadvantage with the TURMS is the reverse gear.
Maybe you should move the tank and the turret together, then it won’t take forever and three days.
The weapon handling is completely ok.
I don’t know which BR you play, but most of the maps are tailored to Russian tanks.
Either extremely flat or the other way around.

What’s the point of all this if you can easily be outmaneuvered?
Absolutely nothing!

Common sense would be play at that BR and observe why the winrate is so low. It’s not because of the vehicles Germans have available, I can promise that.

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Agreed. They are nice back ups as light tanks but I’d rather keep it down to 6.7.

Oh, you promise me, well that sure did convince me despite the complete lack of arguments.

I’d say the T-54 is better than the Maus at 7.7.

Thanks for you insight.

Almost 10HP/t more is absolutely nothing I suppose, right ?

Who needs turrets anyways, casemates are such a popular vehicle type for a reason lmao.
Bottom line is, when talking about gun handling, 2A4 can do everything TURMS can, but way better. Also, vertical targeting speed is abysmal on the TURMS.

And also filled with small, tight corridors where your mobility and gun handling matters a lot.

Then don’t get outmaneuvered ?
As I said, Maus required a specific playstyle to be properly used.

I was talking about Leopard I dude.

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This video is from a game I had six months ago on Fields Of Poland, which is the least Maus-friendly map you can think of. And I went to the farthest cap, too.

I was obviously a worse player then than I am now, and even just looking at these highlights I can identify a few mistakes I’ve made that look very obvious in hindsight. My video editing skills also left something to be desired (still nothing special now but it has improved).

I mention all of this to drive home the point that you don’t need to be a pro player to do well with the Maus, you don’t even need it to be a full downtier or to be on a map that fits it. It’s a good tank, even at 7.7 pre decompression.

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If you want me to generalize, most Mid BR German players only know how to press “W”.

If you want me to be specific, most German players from 6.0-8.0 are not very proficient. Let’s point back to when the Leopard 1 was 7.3 vs another competitor which was 7.7, the AMX-30. Other than the 20mm coax of the French tank, there was no significant difference between them, heck the premium with the .50cal was 7.7 still. The issue tends to be German players constantly underperform. This is verifiable with what we know about how balancing changes are made. They aren’t made by comparing the equipment the vehicle has, it’s adjusted by stats. Tiger H1 was another example. How does that become 5.3 when the E is basically the same tank minus the launchers?

This isn’t to say “if you play Germany, you are bad”. It is much more likely more inexperienced players are driven to the most iconic WWII vehicles, which happen to be German.

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What good does speed do if you’re dead with the first hit?
You realize that you are not playing alone

also brings you a lot on all the small maps.
Out of almost 50 cards, there are only about 5 that are big enough so that performance and speed are important.

Especially if you play German vehicles without any sense or understanding, you won’t have fun for long.

I think you have them swapped around: H1 was 5.3 (now 5.7) and E was 5.7 (is now 6.0).

The S Mine launchers are annoying but in my experience it’s the cupola that is the meaningful difference between them tbh.

Not that this is meant to invalidate your point in any way, just to be clear.

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Yup my bad, will fix.

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Every tank can easily get OHK’d.
Speed will let you take control of good spots first, which means you will control the area and will be able to capitalize on that.

Exactly, good mobility will often save you from being surrounded. Also, you will be much more efficient in engaging multiple targets at the same and isolate advantageous 1v1s.

Have yet to see a map where I can’t utilize my superior mobility to gain an advantage over way slower tanks.
Mobility and gun handling are universally important, you simply cannot deny that.

I have no idea why Leo I is a complete garbage to you.
It will have above average mobility for that tier, around average reload speed, gun handling and shells.
Only thing it lacks is armor, but at 8.0 tanks can just lolpen each other so it’s not that big of a deal honestly.

If Tiran 4S and T-54 can be at 8.0, sure as hell Leopard I can as well.

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The S-Mine launchers sometimes kill you lol, or make you miss shooting opportunities when they block your depression/traverse. Wouldn’t call it harmess. Then the cupola, you’re right, thats the biggest flaw of the H1. If I remember correctly H1 also has a lesst protected turret ring.

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I didn’t call them harmless, I called them annoying. They have gotten me killed sometimes when I forgot they were there. But the cupola gets me killed far more often and is harder to mitigate in gameplay

you didnt actually respond to me here, so it… didnt notify me.

I dont have a 7.3 lineup since the RU is one the few tanks that i want, but dont have, but yeah… i jut have a 7.7 lineup and put the wiesel as the SPAA for it. I get your reasonings how your 6.7 ish tanks can be moved up to 7.3 and play fairly well, but usually i dont bother with a line up unless i have at least 3 tanks for that exact BR. So you calling 7.3 a Line up for 1 tank and a SPAA seemed a bit… wonky to me… but whatevs

Thunderskill spotted, opinion dismissed.

The issue tends to be German players constantly underperform

And this is based on what?

Tiger H1 was another example. How does that become 5.3 when the E is basically the same tank minus the launchers?

Tiger E is objectively a significant improvement over the H1, the launchers are already a large issue for the H1, the cupola another massive weakspot for the H1, the lower glacis also gets extra protection, better turret armor on the E as well, also APCR if that counts for anything.

Not to mention the Tiger E is after the H1 obviously, so the players are going to be more experienced Tiger players vs new Tiger players, a problem that is amplified by the poor tech tree layout that makes a 5.3 Tiger available right after a Panzer lll M at 3.3.

This whole notion that the problem is German players, as if that is somehow even quantifiable is absurd.
People who come to that conclusion as generally just shortsighted and not looking at the circumstances and just jump to the generic ‘Germany bad lul’ and throw in some garbage comments about the history channel and Wittmann.

Comparing it to a minor nation, which is known to have a more experienced playerbase, is also pointless, and premium vehicles always outperform TT versions.