the vbc it’s just a prototype or the version before the freccia wich they actually use so it’s not that they didn’t use it, it’s the same hull as the centauro and the same turret as the dardo.
The df105 should be in the german tree. Its a marder hull. Stop blaming Germany for gaijin refusing to add the amx13-105 like they said they were going to.
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Ok, I’ll replace it with the OTOMATIC
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also the MBT-2000 is a joint Pakistani and Chinese collab and considering the JF-17, Pakistani vehicle will be going to china under the chinese flag because of the being the collab, and the 2E is yes an export vehicle but please show me a tree or sub tree in a tree that showcases the nation that used it
Tbh i don’t want the Lynx just fix my PUMA give it spikes or give me another variant that have spikes and i will be half happy now you will ask where is the other half of happiness i will be completely happy when i see things like Hummel, He 280, Zerstörer 45, and PZH2000 being added to the German TT i will be happy when i see the dev implanting the suggestions that german players put in the forums after giving tons of sources
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Germany developed the KF41 by themselves without Hungary. Hungary simply purchased it.
You know what, I’ll give you question:
Since Argentina is the unofficial sub-tree of Germany, do you support the only Indigenous Italian SPG, the Palmaria coming in the form of the TAM VCA and only be exclusive to the German tree? Italy never used it, but Argentina did.
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I would be fine with them having the TAM hulled palamaria, considering the fact that gaijin will most likely give the Libyan one to Italy, the connection being them being a former Italian colony and it being a vehicle of Italian decent. My argument is as follow, if there is a nation/sub-tree that exists and operates a vehicle developed by a different nation that is ingame, the user should get it and if the origin nation does not use it and has an equivalent (in this case the PUMA which I know is bugged to all hell but so is the Ariete family of MBTs so shush for now) they should not get it, I understand y’all want the KF41 because the PUMA is broken beyond belief, but not only does Hungary now exist in game as a sub tree, Italy itself is rn considering the KF41 (at least according to people who are more up to date with Italian procurement that I talk to)
I will also mention this, the Palamaria Hull is in game it is used for the OTOMATIC, so yeah Germany getting a TAM hulled Palamaria is fine
I don’t understand the discussion
How else could it be? Will they also give Argentine vehicles to Italy?
I meant that as the germans can get the Argentinian TAM version and Italy will most likely get the Libyan one due to the colonial connection
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The question was about exclusivity for a reason. Of course the scenario you’re describing is fine, because it’s analogous to “Italy gets the Hungarian KF41, Germany gets the version trialled by Australia”.
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hasn’t gaijin stated future commonwealth vehicles will go to the UK, also what is the connection between Germany and Australia, Italy and Libya have the connection of one being a former colony of the other
The KF-41 discussion is totally ridiculous here.
What the bald guy said in the dev stream just shows how uninformed he is. It was a spontaneous and uninformed comment. These mistakes are usually common in people who spend all day speaking in front of the public. I would not take it anywhere near as an argument to support the non-implementation of the KF-41 in Germany.
The German TT is about technology developed by Germans, partially or completely. It is not the TT of the bundeswehr. KF-41 could easily come as a German export vehicle. But I insist, there is no point in continuing to argue against a ridiculous statement from the devstream.
Germany should have received the Leopard 2A7 and given the Leopard 2PL better ammunition. Germany does not have an 11.3 lineup (neither 11 nor 10.7) so it is completely useless. And PUMA should get spikes, it’s ridiculous at 10.0.
P/D Let’s avoid discussions about “was a colony of” and focus on technological development. THANK YOU.
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Libya is not a subtree of Italy, and just got Hungary. And the only Libyan related vehicle in game is in the German air tree.
You’re contradicting yourself. You said Germany shouldn’t get the KF41 because they didn’t procure it, well Italy Never procured any Palmarias, why should they get it?
If Libya is your excuse for the Palmarias, then Germany should get the Greek KF41s then. And if “colonies” are your excuse, Germany could claim half of Europe and so can USSR.
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I’m Italian. That’s… not really something I would advertise, mate. Just saying…
All the more so because it’s not from the relevant time period anyway, so the historical argument is misapplied anyway.
German-designed and built vehicle trialled by Australia.
If we’re going by the “just operators” rule, then the Libyan Palmaria should simply not be in the game at all. Easy, no? No operator, no vehicle.
The truth is, as we both know, Gaijin decides on a case by case basis, which is the real reason why this mess has cropped up (and it isn’t the first time either). So it’s specious to worry about the connection between countries X and Y. You’re putting the cart before the horse. Gaijin will put a vehicle where it wants, and then justify it afterwards as needed.
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Occupation is not the same as colonialism, and anyway I did my best to draw some connection that gaijin could come up with, I am not saying such things are good, what I am saying is I am drawing some kind of connection to not just the tech but also the user nation.
Frankly I am confused why Hungary is part of Italy, my argument is that just saying germany made it so they should get it is a bit of an over reach here considering you have a vehicle of this class already the PUMA, I would love the Italian M109 more than the Palamaria personally because I just like the 109 more, maybe they could add it as an event vehicle, but that is a discussion for another time on how they implement that.
Considering the only top unique vehicle Hungary does add to Italy since they were rather lazy to add their version of the T-72 with unique ERA placement, I am not a specialist on hungarian vehicles so do not quote me on that. On the KF41 thread someone mentioned giving the KF31 to the German tree which would be fine since while yes they did not buy it, it as far as I know was not exported and it would still keep the very tiny uniqueness the Hungarian tree has in the current form which sadly is most likely nearly the final form. There should be some reason to grind through a tree and if that can be negated by making it an end of the line vehicle for now after the PUMA because it is broke and is lacking spikes, which I feel like are only really being tested rn so thus not given to other nations for now.
@AurenKarach
I understand that but the issue remains that Hungary barely adds anything unique and part of what it does add at lower tiers, is either quite weak and a joke (the car, tho still will be a fun thing to mess around in).
Gaijin decided to not add the Hungarian modification of the T-72 instead of using their favourite brand of pasta the T-72M1, which has been splattered onto now 3 trees, hopefully in the future they make them more unique with modifications the nations made to them. I play high tier so to me the WW2 vehicles while neat are not much of a though when going through a tree, I understand that the german mains want a working top tier IFV since the PUMA is in a sorry state.
Maybe they will add the Aussie KF41 to germany, personally I would love an event about failed bids called “Rejected, Return to Sender” or something clever like that, in this way Gaijin has an incentive in the way that this can make people use the market more and it adds what people want to trees for nations that created the vehicle, I would also love seeing the smaller Lynx being added to germany the KF31, thus not cutting down of the minuscule uniqueness the Hungarian line offers, granted sure it will take more time in that form, but a dev already stated that germany will not get it (do correct me on this if I am wrong, I missed the ru stream tho from what others have told me), it was even said that the PUMA will get spikes in the future, but rn the spikes are broke and so is the PUMA so why should they combine two broken things. I feel like instead of demanding the KF41 people should try and make gaijin fix the PUMA faster and think of a way that Gaijin could be enticed to add the Lynx to germany.
That just further illustrates my point actually.
War Thunder has grown massively, massively fast. There has been so much focus about adding more and more stuff, that the old system - which was functional for what the game used to be - is beginning to crack at the seams.
Italy should never have been an independent tree. Gaijin is implicitly admitting it by pairing it with a subtree with questionable links, since the Axis period is much shorter than the time when they were on two sides of the Iron Curtain.
In fact, we should have moved past nation-based trees a while ago in my opinion.
I know it’s good for marketing to have more countries in the game, but there are ways to do this without setting yourself the impossible task of giving ten (and maybe more in future) different trees a viable lineup at as many BRs as possible.
This is the root of more issues of WT than people realise, from compression to balance to the matchmaker.
What led us here was a chain of suboptimal, ad-hoc business decisions. Placing the KF41 in the Italian tree exclusively is another one of these business decisions, therefore arguing about the pretexts is useless: you’re focusing on the finger and not the moon.
Well, it’s the criterion used for many other vehicles in game. Although again, Gaijin sets up and undoes its own rules as it sees fit. But you can’t be shocked when that arbitrariness upsets people.
You’re basically saying that it’s fine for them to get a lazy unique selling proposition for Hungary with the KF41, because they were too lazy to give the subtree a non-copy paste version of the T-72? I don’t think that’s a reasonable expectation to have, mate. These are both questionable things they’ve done.
The Toldi and Nimrod would make it more unique. And having an exclusive on the 2S1 as well as the KF41, if that really was the idea.
No matter how you slice it, their implementation is not internally consistent.
I swear I will never understand this argument. Why? Why do we pretend that progressing through a tree is a chore, when it’s literally just playing the game?
Fiat 6614. R3. Freccia. Zrinyi in the tech tree. Turan. These vehicles exist. Are they not worth unlocking? Do you really think the Italian tree is boring? And this boredom is somehow remedied by just one vehicle?
What Italy lacks is quantity, I don’t see anything wrong with quality or interesting designs…
I’m pretty much the opposite to your preferred playstyle, I only play WW2 stuff, so for me this isn’t a “personal” thing. I won’t be playing the KF41 no matter what tree it shows up in. I’ve only been following this discussion in the context of being interested in the upcoming update. I love the game and it’s interesting for me to follow stuff that happens even in parts of the game that I don’t play myself.
Like I said, I think the core of the issue here is the way Gaijin goes about doing stuff like this. For example, if you really need to arm-twist players into playing Italy by dangling the KF41 prize… that means there’s a game design issue. Arm-twisting is not a reasonable fix for poor game design.
Yeah.
War Thunder is pokemon for machinery of war. Even more so than balance or gameplay (god knows we need new game modes), the emphasis is very much on “catching 'em all”. For that reason alone I am a lot more open to paper vehicles and blueprints than players of this game usually are, but I wish it was done under consistent standards.
That is precisely why it’s not surprising at all that exclusivity clauses get people up in arms.
The reason the Puma doesn’t get fixed, by the way, circles all the way around to what I said at the beginning. When the priority is always adding more stuff, fixing old stuff becomes deprioritised.
I think people were fine with it showing up in the Italo-Hungarian tree first. It’s only when it was ruled out even long term that frustrations boiled over.
I think they’ve been trying. There are vehicles whose errors were correctly bug-reported in 2019 and that are still waiting to be changed.
Maybe once Gaijin runs out of vehicles to add, they’ll go back and look at all this for real.
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Unfortunately, no version of the PUMA that comes with StrikeShield APS. And since your enemies are constantly slinging missiles at you from 6km away, I would much prefer having Hardkill APS above anything else.
Also uniqueness is a joke now, why should Hungary have exclusivity? What about uniqueness of Germany/US/USSR? At least Hungary has uniqueness with the lower tiers unlike the major nations who have had so many vehicles given away for free to other nations.
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I keep insisting, for 2 years I have the same feeling.
Gaijin is purposefully discouraging the mass of German players from leaving Germany to consume in other Nations. Taking things from Germany and giving better things to other nations first. He first did it with Sweden and now with Italy.
I’ll ask gaijin for the hundredth time, I hope I’m lucky:
Gaijin, what are your plans for the German tech tree in the future? (next two years) I’m sure you have a roadmap (subject to change of course). Tell us.
@gromvoiny @Smin1080p @Stona_WT @Pacifica @OrsonES @magazine2
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