Lets talk about the state of Germany

My main point was that the US screamed so much over the F15I they got the 229 engines. And its very likely the snail decided to give the Fin players a blatantly inferior F-18 so that the US mains would be appeased.

Even more so info to just add to this. The current plan is to skip the hornet that would’ve been more unique and actually still make the Finnish model on par air wise but it would still lack A2G. Instead the MLU 2 is in the works but Smin stated no current timeframe for its addition so maybe the Swiss model will arrive with MLU 2? Idk just an idea.

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At this point gaijin has gotten on my bad side so many times that im losing interest in this game and its future. Theyve done so much wrong that any good they might do now is just a drop in the ocean for me.

The only way ill care about this game again is if i win the jackpot and can infuence its future with money.

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Normally I wouldn’t give them any benefit of the doubt for this sort of thing, but I would raise a potential explanation.

It’s been a few years now since they removed the German paper tanks, so their general thought process on how to do that may have changed. For one thing, that was one of the most notable instances of them doing something like that, and so likely they used our reactions to it as an example for future cases where they did it.

It’s possible they’re giving a bigger buffer time for the R2Y2s so that the pushback on them removing it isn’t as bad as it was when they took away the German paper tanks, as a result of them learning from the last time.

Or maybe it’s just another one of their double standards. Just thought I should raise the possibility.

OMG. Since the rocket wasn’t even fully developed, there’s simply no evidence that it can travel further than 4 km. There is proof of that: a test shot over that distance.

Now I’m supposed to prove that fantasy values ​​aren’t correct?

Accept it. The developers copied the PARS, claiming the TRIGAT worked exactly the same way long before development ended, and that’s it.

You know how it is. All weapons are actually only in their final stages of development for five years and don’t require any further development. :-)

I’m done. This is too stupid for me.

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There’s no reason to use the French UHT anyways, since there’s a better option for GRB and heli modes.

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My intention should be obvious.

If France gets the German Tigers, there’s nothing stopping Germany from getting the French Tigers.

Or at least the French Mistrals.

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Gajin has likely no interest. The tech transfer is mostly a oneway thing. France didn’t even had the need for the Tiger UHT, they already had a 11.0 and a 12.0 heli. Perfect coverage. Still Gajin thought its neccessary to trash away the german top tier heli to French TT.

Edit: Imho I’m not sure whether I personally want all the tech trees watered down like this. On the one hand its nice to fill gaps, on the other hand its kind of dull when the same vehicles are used by too many nations. Its probably too late anyways. But at least iconic units and any nation’s top tier material should have never been spreaded that much into foreign TTs.

As I started with WT, it was much better. Everyone knew the signature units of the main nations. Every nation specific strenghts and weaknesses. Long range/close quarter specialists, speed teams and tankiness on the ground.
In the air climbers, energy fighters, dogfighters, headone specialists, death star bombers. Every nation had something unique. Now its like everyone has everything. Especially from the minor nations, which get so much tech imports from all sides that they have the best stuff from all around the world.

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Much worse. The Tiger simply had Mistral engines added to it, making it better than the UHT.

Of course, with the same BR.

I know, the French Tiger is better. Its got Mistrals over Stingers and has better loadout options. The French UHT might use rocket pods etc on the outside pylons. This way you could do rocket pod runs at game start.

German UHT Tigers can’t really do it with just two pods. The German UHT might just use the outer pylons for Stingers. Ingame the outer ones aren’t cleared for rockets or the double PARS launchers. Dunno why.

It’s a real problem in Sim.

I share your misgivings with giving the same vehicles to all nations. The trouble is that as things become modern, there aren’t as many options for avoiding that. As much as I dislike having matches where you have all the same vehicles on both sides, which is what ends up happening, I’m not sure what the alternative is.

That said, I think we need less captured vehicles. Having air battles with Bf 109s in three different countries feels pretty bad, both in an immersion sense, and in the sense of having a clear difference in gameplay style.

worst of all, its a fake vehicle.
the only HAC ever ‘trialled’ was a repainted UHT.

the real HAC would have featured different systems as compared to the UHT.

the current airframe we have as the wannabe HAC in WT is a UHT that was, IRL, returned back to germany and STILL exists in a german military museum

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5* but yes you are correct. at that point it had not been developed to a point to have 7km range which is evidenced by the can be extended

image

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I do not understand this. I press R, the game tells me if they’re friendly or not.

I mean, its been pointed out witb sources its a modified tiger for france.

Germany doesn’t really need it.

Im of the opinion we should stop just spreading the same vehicles into the game resulting in copy and paste and get actual indigenous vehicles.

Not a helicopter user or nation user so no biases on it.

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Which is currently modeled the exact same way as a post-2013 upgrade for the German UHT/KHT; the ought to remove Asgard features and lower the TRIGAT range to 5km’s, then we can talk.

Somehow France gets away with having their stuff modeled to the available specification(s), even DM43 which was primarily developed by Germany’s Rheinmetall under the LKE I program as part of the KWS I program for the Leopard 2, is coded per specifications for France, but for Germany? It’s been underperforming for years now.

The French love to whine about how badly they’re treated and how vocal the German/British mains are, but ironically, they’re treated so well compared to us, and yet they cry vastly more than any of us.

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What? France gets DM43? though the 2a5 and 2a6 went DM33 > DM53?
As well as this its the first I’ve seen someone say that the French leopard has a different round, ontop of that It’s not a French Leopard 2 they are dutch

Who is this collective “us” ?

The French tree is pretty stupid, some tanks are fantastic at certain BR’s then they shaft other stuff, rather than fix the leclercs the chose to ram in the dutch leopards and so on and so forth.
you got tanks like the Char 25T sitting at 8.0 which is ridiculous and the somau SM sittin at 7.7.

Thus my point at the end as far as I was aware, so then implement said changes and boom done.
Won’t argue it, but dont just fill every tree with the exact same stuff.

On top of that, the Helicopter is made by Eurocopter airbus, which isn’t just German so why say the Tiger is a German helicopter?

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You do know OFL 120 F1 of the Leclerc IS DM43, right? -,-
And it’s been performing as it should ever since 2019 or so, whereas Germany’s DM43 is still underperforming on the 2PL, despite 2 reports having been filled since 2021, both accepted btw.

On top of that, the Helicopter is made by Eurocopter airbus, which isn’t just German so why say the Tiger is a German helicopter?

I didn’t, don’t ask me that question, because by doing so you’re just putting words in my mouth. I said that the ASGARD upgrade is German, it is the reason why the UHT has been renamed KHT after 2013, and yet, for some reason a pre-production prototype is modeled to the same specs for the French, even a prototype of a weapon is modeled to the same exact specs as the finished product, even though Gaijin’s own sources (as shared by Smin), state it should have significantly worse range.

UHT should even have the Mistrals because it’s been seen with them before, yet it doesn’t, lmao.

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The OFL 120 F1 is directly DM43? or a french iteration of it ? aka an equivelant, its the first time ive every seen someone say the OFL 120 F1 actually is Dm43.

As well as that the leclerc sits at 12.0 with DM43 equivelant as its top tier round while the DM43 on the leopard 2PL is a lower BR.

This is a gaijin issue though isnt it, they always do this malarkey with bug reports, got some on CR2 and chieftain about the same.

Eh then why bother playing france at all at that stage for the heli pilots.

Should rephrase it and say why are people saying the helicopter is german, not that it was german apologies.
I do agree with what you said it should lose the asgard and be made in line with how it is IRL

image

Literally exact same projectile.

Die Ende der 1980er Jahre begonnenen Arbeiten zur Modifizierung des Panzers Leopard 2 im Rahmen der ersten Phase des Kampfwertsteigerungsprogramms (KWS) setzten die Einführung einer Kanone mit verlängertem Rohr (L/55) und neuer Munition voraus. Während sich die Entwicklung der Kanone selbst, die als billigere Alternative zur völlig neuen Kanone des Kalibers 140 mm gedacht war, etwas hinzog, wurde die Munition für die Kanone, die eine bessere Zielbekämpfung auf Entfernungen von über 2.000 m sowie eine höhere Durchschlagskraft ermöglichen sollte, recht schnell entwickelt. An ihrer Entwicklung war das französische Unternehmen GIAT beteiligt, da sie auch für die 120-mm-Kanone CN120-26/52 des Leclerc-Panzers als wichtiges Mittel zur Bekämpfung schwer gepanzerter Ziele vorgesehen war. Die 1994 eingeführte Patrone DM43/43A1 (LKE I, Leistungsgesteigerte Kinetische Energie I) hatte ein Wolfram-Sinterkerngeschoss mit einer Anfangsgeschwindigkeit von 1740 m/s. Die Kernlänge betrug 574 mm, der Durchmesser 23 mm (Streckung ca. 25:1) und sie konnte Panzerungen mit einer reduzierten Dicke von bis zu 590 mm durchschlagen. Diese Munition ging in Produktion, wurde aber nicht in die Bewaffnung der Bundeswehr aufgenommen, die den mit der DM43 erzielten Gewinn an Durchschlagskraft im Vergleich zur DM33 für zu gering hielt. Sie wurde auch in Frankreich eingeführt, wo sie von GIAT (später Nexter) unter der Bezeichnung OFL 120 F1, jedoch mit einer anderen Treibladung, produziert wurde.

tl;

Work on modifying the Leopard 2 tank as part of the first phase of the KWS (Kampfwertsteigerungsprogramm) combat capability enhancement program, initiated in the late 1980s, assumed the introduction of an extended barrel (L/55) cannon and new ammunition. While work on the cannon itself, intended to be a cheaper alternative to the brand-new 140mm caliber cannon, dragged on somewhat, the ammunition for it, intended to provide better target-fighting capabilities at distances of more than 2,000 meters, as well as increased penetrability, was developed fairly quickly. The French company GIAT was involved in its development, as it was also envisioned as an essential means of combating heavily armored targets for the 120 mm CN120-26/52 cannon of the Leclerc tank. Introduced in 1994, the DM43/43A1 (LKE I, Leistungsgesteigerte Kinetic Energie I) cartridge had a tungsten sintered core projectile with an initial velocity of 1740 m/s. The length of the core was 574 mm, its diameter was 23 mm (an elongation of about 25:1) and it was capable of penetrating armor of reduced thickness up to 590 mm. The ammunition went into production, but was not introduced into the armament of the Bundeswehr, which considered the gain in penetrability achieved with the DM43 to be too small compared to the DM33, but its production was nevertheless launched for export. It was also introduced in France, where it was produced by GIAT (later Nexter) under the designation OFL 120 F1, but with a different propelling charge.

The only difference between them is German vs French propelling charges (which WERE produced to the same specification ANYWAYS).

Eh then why bother playing france at all at that stage for the heli pilots.

Spikes?
Chaingun?
Hello?

Why even bother playing the German heli TT at this point? France has a UHT. This goes both ways, and Germany getting the Mistrals doesn’t take away from things France will still have.

As well as that the leclerc sits at 12.0 with DM43 equivelant as its top tier round while the DM43 on the leopard 2PL is a lower BR.

And yet the 2PL sits at a BR with Abroomzes that have either M829A1, M829A2, or KE-W, all of which are vastly superior to the anemic version of DM43 that Gaijin has coded. I also don’t see why it shouldn’t be fixed just cus it’s not top BR like the Leclerc… THEY’RE ONLY 0.3 BR APART BY THE WAY, they both fight 12.0s all day long.

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