Lets talk about the state of Germany

[CoffeeBean100]

@AurenKarach

These statistics apply to how these vehicles performed in the hands of TS-tracked players for the past month. Longer time periods are only available to TS patrons, unfortunately.

CoffeeBean, your stats in the Heavy Tank No.6 in Ground RB are: 49.58% win rate, 1.7 kills per death.

All in all, I’d say there isn’t much of a difference between how TS-tracked players use their Tigers, and you use yours.

TS - no. It is a guide line of certain players and all I might use it for is more indepth analysis of indivduals. It might be the only source of such data but that does not make it relevant.

Checking the actual players in the matches gives a lot lower , win rate is irrelevant ofc. Many of those in their Panthers/Tigers I share matches with do not have positive k/ds.

Point being Heavy is one of my most played vehicles (well, was) and had no trouble in uptiers whilst at the time there were many complaints at how weak the two Tigers were.

You look at TS for Heavy 6 stats (since I am super average), but of course that is now very limited in number/players (removed from sale to become a MP item…) which explains in part why one might get very different results to TT ones. My stats are average, but miles ahead of those I come across that help to continue to dunk my win rate (overall, not the Heavy, heck I only do PvE Air nowadays).

Jump on most teams and it is not much fun, as in less than other nations. And still Germany get more lone games than any other, and checking US/EU queues Germany seems to have the same domination in numbers at almost every tier, like US air for ARB.

One thing, I win most Tiger on Tiger battles as they do not angle where I do, and I hide the death-sentence of that ammo on the front left you can NEVER BLOOMIN GET RID OF. And bear in mind the Heavy 6 has the mine launchers, no roof MG, no APCR; it is inferior at the same BR as the E.

Of course, this is a generalisation but one that seriously put me off playing Germany. I never felt under-powered just under-teamed.

[MotorolaCRO]

@Chris4win

I disagree with that statement. For example Germany has tons of 4.3 tanks, all good, but only tank destroyers (hetzer, jagdpanzer, brummbar, stug, sturer emil etc.). But 4.3 is not a good br to play for Germany. uptiers to 5.3 are the rule and on city maps you are more or less lost.

You are mixing things up, those tanks are certainly good, but TDs of that time in general aren’t very versatile (as expected from case mates), and only excels in a single playstyle.
5.3 Germany has really good mediums, heavies and TDs, only thing that’s lacking is light tank, which other countries might have, but they aren’t anything special.

@Chris4win

Russia has the pt76b aswell at 5.3 which isn’t great (workable after the reload buff) but still good in city maps

PT-76B isn’t good, it can get penetrated by MG fire even from the front so close range engagements aren’t advisable. Also, it is quite slow for a light tank.

@Chris4win

People underestimate spotting.

You underestimate how important good mediums/heavies are.

[AurenKarach]

@MotorolaCRO

But as I said above, TS isn’t really competent to show us the full picture about anything,

@CoffeeBean100

TS - no. It is a guide line of certain players and all I might use it for is more indepth analysis of indivduals. It might be the only source of such data but that does not make it relevant.

Oh, I agree. The only reason why I began this analysis was because of this statement:

@MotorolaCRO

Germany has arguably the best 5.3 - 6.3 lineup in the game, but according to TS, their WRs there are barely over 50%.

Which led me to compare win rates in the context of Thunderskill’s dataset. That doesn’t mean I take that dataset seriously. In my daily use, I just track my own progress. But for this specific assertion, having a WR hover around 50% on TS is apparently not unusual.

@CoffeeBean100

I never felt under-powered just under-teamed.

I get this feeling as well, though I haven’t actually noticed as much German-specific dumbness as one might expect. I’ve had terrible teams with all sorts of tech tree compositions, and same for the good ones, and I’ve had good days and terrible days myself in terms of my own performance. Then again, it’s just my personal anecdotal experience.

@MotorolaCRO

Also, you might be an average player in the grand scheme of things, but at that BR, someone with 10k+ battles surely will perform better than average.

Yes, I agree. Though with the qualification (and I stress qualification, it’s not meant to invalidate what you say) that most of those battles have been spent in tank destroyers. It’s actually one of the reasons why I’ve gone back and I’m playing every BR between 1.0 and 7.7. There’s a bunch of essential skill sets that I didn’t pick up because I laser-focused on TDs at first. The number of battles I have in Tiger Is and Panthers isn’t that high, and you can basically split it between matches I played on my first way through the game, when I was rushing research and was a terrible player, and matches played now.

Still. Even with that caveat, playing lots of battles gives you a huge amount of transferable experience that you can use in almost every vehicle. It’s only the really odd ones where I find you sort of have to start from scratch (the Maus is the obvious example in my personal experience).

@MotorolaCRO

You don’t need to cap first, light vehicles at this BR often have sub-par guns and will struggle with your frontal armor.

You don’t need to, but it can be an advantage, especially because usually the owners of those light vehicles, get to CAS first if they secure the cap.

When I play German 5.3 and 5.7 and the match goes horribly wrong a few minutes in, it’s usually because of that particular chain of events. One of the things that made me decide that I need to get serious about learning SPAAs.

@MotorolaCRO

I don’t know what’s happening with Italy, I barely see them ever,

That’s strange. I get them all the time now, with the grind for the Hungarian vehicles and all.

@Chris4win

But 4.3 is not a good br to play for Germany.

I disagree with this with every fibre of my body lmao

I mean that in a friendly way. I love German 4.3, it’s my comfort BR, all of those vehicles are amazing. And tbh some are actually more than decent on city maps. The Jpz IV turns on a dime and if angled can survive a surprising amount of shots. And the Brummbaer is hilarious to use.

But, yeah. Lack of a good light vehicle between the Puma and the LeK is a weakness in the current tree.

[CoffeeBean100]

@MotorolaCRO

only thing that’s lacking is light tank, which other countries might have, but they aren’t anything special

I’d say it is pretty darn handy and always hope for some scouts. Germany really could do with one but just like I did for years with GB you made it work (up to 8.0 for the GB, before SA, using the AEC II). Being stuck with the puma until 6.3 does let down a nation that can often fight alone, in my opinion.

[CoffeeBean100]

@AurenKarach

I get this feeling as well, though I haven’t actually noticed as much German-specific dumbness as one might expect. I’ve had terrible teams with all sorts of tech tree compositions, and same for the good ones, and I’ve had good days and terrible days myself in terms of my own performance. Then again, it’s just my personal anecdotal experience.

Oh very much isn’t just one nation. The factors of being a bit more popular and more chance of being a solo nation have, in my experience, worsened the performance relatively.

[Thodin]

@AurenKarach

I love German 4.3, it’s my comfort BR,

Ger teams always get blobbed by KV- teams, spiced up with T-34 around 4.0. They are hard to stop if they stick together. Sometimes good cas players in bf-110 (4 anti tank rockets, 2x 500kg bomb) and He-111 with that 2500 kg nuke) stop them. If not its just RIP Panzers. I don’t see any stellar German tech tree tanks around the 4.0 bracket. Just ger CAS is strong around that BR, though (111 with that mega bomb, 109F4, 110G2).

[AurenKarach]

Every gun you have at 4.3 can one-hit-kill KV1s, provided that you know your shot placements. And the Sturer Emil just laughs at that armour 😁

It’s a BR where I can have good matches while relaxing. It’s unbelievable how I’ll play a few rounds of 6.7, which I love, and feel mentally exhausted from a good match with 3-4 kills… then go down to 4.3 to relax, and can do well without needing to be 100% on it.

[MotorolaCRO]

@AurenKarach

I’ve had terrible teams with all sorts of tech tree compositions, and same for the good ones

Sure thing, you will get atrocious teammates no matter what nation and BR you are playing. But, at least from my experience, German teammates around BRs where Tigers and Panthers reside are in general one of the worst I’ve encountered.
Guys playing 9.3 premiums come close in second place though.

@AurenKarach

that most of those battles have been spent in tank destroyers

I think by playing TDs only will actually improve your skill faster. Most of those are really tricky to play, you need to have amazing awareness and positioning.

@AurenKarach

It’s only the really odd ones where I find you sort of have to start from scratch (the Maus is the obvious example in my personal experience).

It’s always easier to transition from harder to easier, than vice versa. As I said above, you will develop game sense much quicker in something like a case mate TD, those things don’t really forgive overextending and brainless play.

@AurenKarach

You don’t need to, but it can be an advantage, especially because usually the owners of those light vehicles, get to CAS first if they secure the cap.

True, cap&fly people can be a pain in the ass if they know how to fly well.
But, capping in a light vehicle also brings a lot of risks, multiple artys are often called to the contested cap point, making it extremely easy to die in very early game.

@AurenKarach

That’s strange. I get them all the time now, with the grind for the Hungarian vehicles and all.

Even when I get Italy, it’s like 2 or 3 players at max in a 12+ team, and most of those are memeing around with R3, with occasional 2S1 grinder.

@CoffeeBean100

I’d say it is pretty darn handy and always hope for some scouts.

Scouts are always nice, but you need teammates that can actually aim at small German weakpoints to get results in the end.

[AurenKarach]

@MotorolaCRO

I think by playing TDs only will actually improve your skill faster. Most of those are really tricky to play, you need to have amazing awareness and positioning.

I see what you mean, and you have a very good point. But there’s still not exactly 100% overlap at least in my personal experience - for example, “don’t be hit” is always part of the security onion, but the way you “don’t get hit” in a Dicker Max is different than in a Pz IV, if that makes sense. Knowing places on the map that you can exploit with a turret that you can’t with a casemate, stuff like that etc. There’s a different “flow” to your game.

@MotorolaCRO

As I said above, you will develop game sense much quicker in something like a case mate TD, those things don’t really forgive overextending and brainless play.

Yes. The other thing it taught me was marksmanship. I think to this day it’s the thing I do best in WT. Whether that means very long range snapshots, or very accurate shot placement, or getting one of those “blink and you’ll miss it” shots on a moving enemy, playing German TDs etched this stuff into my muscle memory.

Slowly but surely, gotta work on the rest of the skillset… :D :D

[AlvisWisla]

Spamming suggestion moderators on the forum with a bug report won’t get it seen faster.

[Ghost-King]

I didn’t spam i send the suggestion every 24h but they delete it within minutes every 24h i send the same suggestion to see it get deleted within 15 minutes

[Ghost-King]

And ofc they still ignoring the rest of mu suggestions i know it took them a very long time to see if the suggestions are valid or not but 1 whole month i
believe this is more than enough

For how much longer should i keep waiting

Send 4 suggestions all now pending there is completely no response on them, if you don’t like them at least delete them and give me the chance to make a new one

Spoiler

[Screenshot_2023-09-15-00-34-36-960-edit_com.android.chrome] [Screenshot_2023-09-15-00-34-14-960-edit_com.android.chrome] [Screenshot_2023-09-15-00-33-46-577-edit_com.android.chrome] [Screenshot_2023-09-15-00-33-05-307-edit_com.android.chrome]

[MotorolaCRO]

@AurenKarach

There’s a different “flow” to your game.

Sure, difference in their playstyle is more than visible.
But, I guess you can play Pz IV in the same way you play Dicker Max way easier than vice versa. With casemates, if they get your driver/engine/transmission, you are basically done for. With that constantly in your mind, you will think more and will probably get better at the game much faster.
Going from a TD to a “normal” tank shouldn’t be that hard, yeah playstyles aren’t the same, but I guess you would learn it very quickly when you have fundamentals sorted out thanks to TD experience.

@AurenKarach

The other thing it taught me was marksmanship.

That’s one of the most important things to learn, at least in tiers where LRFs and pin-point accurate guns aren’t a thing.
There are also a lot of different vehicles with various different weakspots, you firstly need to learn them and then be able to recognize the tank in question quickly, since bushing up your profile is a very common thing to do.

[AurenKarach]

@MotorolaCRO

There are also a lot of different vehicles with various different weakspots, you firstly need to learn them and then be able to recognize the tank in question quickly, since bushing up your profile is a very common thing to do.

I have this thing about obsessively spending time in protection analysis, right. On more than one occasion where I’ve met a rare tank, that’s saved me - when I met a T54E1 in Stalingrad, I immediately knew where to shoot it with the Maus, stuff like that. This methodical process of memorisation has led to some amusing results in the past. I have JT in my 7.7 lineup too, and in an 8.7 game I had the pleasure of one-shotting an Obj 279 through the driver’s hatch (volumetric must have been very cooperative that day). But perhaps my favourite shenanigans are with the Dicker Max at higher BRs: I’ve gotten the opportunistic broadside kills on T-55s, Somuas, Strv 103s and a T-10M, stuff like that, and a god mode with a Dardo kill, but my two favourite by far were frontal one-hit-kills on a Conqueror and an M103. I can’t take credit for the first, target was mostly hidden behind bushes, I won the lottery with that shot, but with the M103, I knew exactly the one pixel that the 105mm could penetrate frontally.

Ridiculous. And fun. :D

[MotorolaCRO]

@AurenKarach

I have this thing about obsessively spending time in protection analysis, right.

I tend to learn on the fly, or after the fact I got non-penetration on something and got killed lol.

[AurenKarach]

I think the time when I really started obsessing about protection analysis was the first time I encountered an IS-3 and got my ass handed to me. The absolute shock I felt when I went with the standard LFP shot that works on most Soviet WW2 tanks, and realised that nuh-uh-uh… :D

IS4-M compounded that feeling, because while the IS-3’s shape is so extremely angled that even as a rookie it gives you a little pause, the IS4-M is visually quite deceptive, you see the stepped and somewhat large LFP, the bulging turret cheeks, if you have no clue what it is it looks like a more “classic” WW2 Soviet design.

[-buildcrafter-]

And now The tiger and Panther get uptiered from 5.7 to 6 to make it even less fun to play

[CoffeeBean100]

Yeah, having vehicles under-tiered is much more fun. Glad the training wheels have been removed again, at last!!

[Ion_492]

The Tiger E should’ve stayed at 5.7, but the Panthers 100% deserved to go up, those were OP, and ruined an entire BR range for me.

[CoffeeBean100]

Not really, Churchill VII should never meet a Tiger so all need to be at least 6.0?