~730mm KEP using c-tech insert, like strv122, 2a7v use d-tech, d-tech without addon(PSO should have this armor) should be around 600mm KEP, d-tech with addon(2a7v) should be the same as turret protection wise, so around 800-900mm KEP
I dont doubt the values stated but we really need 730mm Ke at 500m and thats what I cant find.
We risk having tanks that cannot be physically penetrated at the distances ingame we encounter and while on paper thats “realistic” most warthunder tank duels take place below 1km for gameplay this creates imbalance.
On Leopard2A7V Turret and Hull armor should have same amount of protection levels.
Irrelevant. The Leopard 2 TVM max in Sweden had achieved higher protection ratings against KE than what Obj 292s APFSDS can achieve (upwards of 730mm KE on the hull and 870mm on the turret), that’s already enough ‘proof’.
Can this Leopard 2A7 handle a point blank shot of 10-100m from its own gun?
Yes, what makes you think that a thirty-year-old newer Leopard 2A7V, with a more advanced composite array than what the TVM max had used in Sweden (it’s nowdays called Strv 122, btw), shouldn’t be capable of doing that? The TVM tested by the Swedes had been pittied against DM53 in fact, and it utterly failed to perforate it (not to mention, the real life DM53 is more powerful than the in-game one), even at spots that are considered weakpoints in War Thunder.
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It’s fixing the armor holes that were making it less survivable than it should be, fixing places that shouldn’t be reallisticaly penetrated in the first place
Im aware they use a calculator and not realistic penetration values for rounds
So then should they use acurate armour values if the rounds that face them are incorrectly modelled?
DM53 is an old round now mid 90s we would be looking at DM73 which on paper should penetrate in the region of 670mm (ish) of RHS. That would mean the best Dart in the game would not be able to penetrate the current Leopard 2A7V which in itself is dated in comparision to the new armour arrays on the Leopard 2A8 and 2A7V+
Thats not good for gameplay
That is good for gameplay mishmashed armour models and “holes” are so frustrating!
Source?
Yes i would like that the piece of armor there that is supossed to protect me and that adds close to 4 tons of weight would actually work and do the job of protecting me and not being mere decoration
Cool, DM53 should be in the 680mm region, and DM73 by all metrics should be performing better than Obj 292s APFSDS.
That would mean the best Dart in the game would not be able to penetrate the current Leopard 2A7V which in itself is dated in comparision to the new armour arrays on the Leopard 2A8 and 2A7V+
Huh? How is 2A7V dated compared to the 2A8 and “2A7V+” (since when is V+ an actual variant?)
Thats not good for gameplay
Oh sorry, other nations having better CAS & jets than Germany is also not good for gameplay. Have you complained about that yet?
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DM73 is touted to have a 8% increase in pen on DM53 I just did the math.
This is warthunder penetration values.
Lol. Lmao. Lmfao even.
Ok one thing to get clear DM53 correct density it’s 18.5 g cm³ wich means it’s currently wrong at the moment if You take the increase in velocity from DM73 penetration would increase up to 690 mm of pen or a bit higher
We are talking tank vs tank if I need to spawn CAS because my tank cant defeat your tank thats not good for gameplay.
670 ish is 680…
You know Germany will get great CAS options, will you be this agitated when you get an F/A-18 loaded with LGBs and Mavericks…
2A7+ V was a typo.
Yes Gaijin do lots of stupid things that bring the game oout of balance, you might have noticed German and Swedens win rates recently. Not what I would call balanced.
That is not a source, neither did you provide numbers or did you give a source for said number. Regardless you are aware that DM53 should have ~687mm by itself.
Yeah well then it’s not fair every country has it’s pros and cons and you are basing on 1 tank yo Say Germany is OP in the meantime i could Say the same for 1 good cas britain has, and if it’s pros are having a versátile top tier MBT then it’s fine and if for britain it is having good cas then its fine, but the rest it’s matter of balance by gaijin we just want the unintended or incorrect stuff fixed
So we’re just ignoring that even the best of MBTs can’t do nothing if they have a Gripen C flying above them? Yes, 2A7V will be better, much much better if fixed, I don’t deny that. But that’s the entire point of this MBT, it’s meant to be superior to everything up to date, from armour, through firepower, to survivability. Why else do you think it has gained over 6 tons of weight over the 2A6, the previous workhorse of the Heer?
You know Germany will get great CAS options, will you be this agitated when you get an F/A-18 loaded with LGBs and Mavericks…
I don’t remember Swiss F-18Cs ever carrying LGBs or Mavericks, mind sharing your sources on that? You’ve peaked my interest.
Yes Gaijin do lots of stupid things that bring the game oout of balance, you might have noticed German and Swedens win rates recently. Not what I would call balanced.
German winrates had already been very high before the 2A7V was even added. Sweden’s even more. Wanna know something? Leopard 2PL has taught German players to actually play well, somehow.
So you have a good tank and players that are at the very least average, combine them and bam you get the results we’re observing rn.
You cant balance aviation against tanks a 200 dollar FPV drone has destroyed every European and Russian tank. It’s an impossible task adding stand off munitions was a mistake for gameplay.
Thats not what i’m saying, it has to at least like for like be balanced like it is at lower BR brackets.
The Leopard 2 and STRV 122 combo is like facing a Maus with the mobility of an M18 against a Sherman.
This has been an issue since the 2A5 dropped it dominated as did the 2A6 and now the STRV122 and Leopard 2A7.
I would be incredibly surpised if Gaijin doesnt pull the (its in the manual line) The Gripen has AGM 65 it never used in the SA tree and the F-15A was given bombs.
Because the Leopard as a whole is so surviveble, its very hard to one shot unless you have a great round. It has lot’s of space you are never killing the commander and the gunner at the same time. if you dont get the breach you die from the crack back. I dont think German players are particluarly anything special if we base competency on brs below top tier they are pretty average (thats not to say im a great player I’m not!)
The Leopard 2A4 and above is the great leveller
oh which F/A 18 with this capabilities do you mean?
Because swiss F/A 18C do not use lgbs or mavericks they are purely air to air
Its not one OP tank though Germanies ground lineup is one of the best.
With several very competitive tanks. If not for Sweden it would hands down be the best ingame