Redback is a South Korean IFV :P
For Germany it’d be a KF41.
My bad then, thought it was a Deutsch export. Still the point stands that failed exports should go to their parent nation
My opinion is that nonspecific exports should go to the parent nation. An export could be a failure but if it was designed entirely for one nation then it mind as well go to them as a premium/squadron/event vehicle.
just that australia isnt part of the game in the first place as a nation<
besides that the KF41 isnt entirely designed for australia, its a standard export with some features modified for australia
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As Shini said, AU isn’t a nation specific subtree, and given if the Brits had it their way they’d have every subtree to themselves. We don’t need that, i think your logic makes sense as a passive idea but in the scheme of things but some nations literally export more than they use themselves which means you can have a nation get multiple nation specific vehicles because while they didn’t choose them they tested them. I think that itself is a good enough reason not to add them like that. Now joint venture designs are a different story. Begleit, Trinity, DF105, MBT-70 ect should just go to both nations within reason.
I think if its gonna be argued it should go to the nation it was trying to be sold too then it should go to both the parent and export nation. Kf41 shouod be on germany and Hungary and its a joke that its not.
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in that regard as far as i am aware there is an amx 30 super suggestion for germany that is only awaiting approval
I just know the vehicles i mentioned fall under the category of joint project, i could be wrong though, as far as an amx i have no info so i cant say but would be interesting considering the lacking 8.7 lineup now that the A1A1 and Tam are now 9.0 but, France should get something to add if the AMX gets added to Germany.
I say 8.7 cause idr if its 8.7 or 9.x
german made modification, strictly speaken france had no hand in it, besides the amx itself being french
no similar case exists as far as i am aware, and the join projects should be in both trees now
Ah, didn’t know how much it was modified if its unique then yeah it should go to both.
Quoting war thunder wiki here
A consortium of West German companies designed the AMX-30 Super modernisation package for the AMX-30B (Model 1972) in the late 1980s. AEG, Krupp Atlas Elektronik, MTU, Wegmann & Co., Diehl, ZF Friedrichshafen, and GLS formed the consortium. The power packs were upgraded with a new MTU MB833 Ka501 diesel engine with 850 horsepower, a ZF LSG-3000 automatic transmission, a new engine cooling system, and a fuel capacity increase to 1,028 litres. Upgraded torsion bars, hydraulic shock absorbers, new somewhat wider road wheels, and Diehl Type 234 tracks are also part of the mobility upgrade. The fire control systems have been upgraded with Krupp Atlas Elektronik’s MOLF-30 modular laser FCS, a two-plane fully automatic stabilization system, and modern gunner thermal imaging equipment. Additional turret armour is also available per buyer request.
So its quite a heavy modification and a lot of stuff being changed
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Well, I think it’s pretty obvious that most of its vehicles are found in the British tree though. I’m not opposed to waiting until we eventually see the final destination for AU vehicles, but as of the moment I would prefer that we keep them together.
Not really, it’s just that commonwealth nations make sense to be placed under the British tree coming from a historical standpoint, and y’know, there’s a lot of em’. Not to mention that all the imported vehicles these countries use such as the Canadian Leopards, Australian Abrams, and Indian-Russian vehicles make them uneasy options for some people, which is understandable. Personally I only believe that Britain needs Ireland as a subtree, with the rest dedicated to other areas.
I’m not a fan of copy-paste tested vehicles; I have no love for the Swedish T-80 and Mi-28 for example. I am only in favor of those nation-specific vehicles you mentioned, as they were specifically designed for the requirements of one nation and one nation only, and so they essentially hold the same status to me as a domestic prototype that was never accepted for service.
I agree with this, since the KF41 that Hungary uses is actually just the standard production export model that Rheinmetall advertises to all customers. We know this because they have promoted it separately on multiple occasions, such as during Eurosatory 2024.
If you look at the Aussie model, which is a version that only Australia was ever intended to use, there are clear differences.
the KF-41 standard version for export its the australian one you are seeing but without the iron fist aps, the nonstandard is the KF-41 HU wich had strikeshield aps put by petition of hungary
There are still plenty of differences in design and minor functions that I would argue would at the very least make it a minor variant.
for reference the only difference between this and the standard fully equipped version shown as a tech demonstrator for customers its iron fist, and new launcher and systems for the turret, as for the commonwealth, i still dont believe is a good excuse to add every single vehicle seen from countries, specially under the argument that they werent adopted by that country, i understand if a few get added such as india, but on the longer run the tt becomes more filled with random stuff than anything and it really becomes an absolute mess that’s why im not very fond of the commonwealth excuse quite frankly
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Not wanting the Commonwealth nations to crowd up the British tree is an understandable concern, I too would rather they take their business elsewhere. But I do think that there are enough differences between the German KF41 and the Aussie one that both have their respective places in the game. Maybe the KF41 is not worth adding to Australia at the moment, but I will 100% support it if a new Commonwealth tree or foldered minor nations system gets implemented.
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what i would rather see but i know gaijin its gonna overtier its the KF-41 in the brochure wich contains the early KF-41 equipped with unmanned turret 30-35 mm cannon depending on choice and up to 4 atgm’s ready to fire
True, but considering how Gaijin tends to severely uptier anything with missiles despite the effectivness of them, perhaps it would be better to add the early prototype without any. And leave the missile uptier to the already-implemented one we have in Hungary.
also another thing i remember is the book of rules for gaijin addition of vehicles, for such cases it went like this vehicle build by (german company), went to australia and trialed but not adopted in this case it goes to the country of origin or country who made it, there are cases where vehicles are build and trialed by same country or under collab and get added to such country like the Boxer Cockerill 3105
this one has missiles, lemme show u the fun pic, that area where the smoke launchers are located fold outwards and reveals the missiles, that’s why i said it has 4 ready to fire
Well, it would be nice if Gaijin actually had a proper rulebook for vehicle implementation, because they seem to contradict themselves quite often such as with the AMX-30 Super that was brought up earlier in this thread.