Lets talk about the state of Germany

[An_Pigeon]

@Panther2995

, not to mention 2PL has huge gunner sight weakspot while Chally2 doesnt suffer from same issue,

The CR2 is meant to be one of the most well armoured MBTs out there, its UFP can be penned by even 3bm15 in games due to the horrific coding of the game at this stage.

While I agree the 2PL is worse (as seen above) the leopard 2PL is vastly more mobile than teh CR2, due to the plethora of issues with the CR2. The 2PL with access to DM53 would be all round better than the CR2 overall. much closer to a 2A5.

However with the worse DM43, and ofc the glaring issue of a 2A4 hull, it right now is infact not better than a CR2. (ive used both and while I enjoy the 2PL it isnt objectively better than a CR2).

@Panther2995

Never got overpressured by 57mm in my Chally2’s, interesting claim.

luque13:

It can happen in a CR2 same as it can in any tank, if they shoot bellow or the stuff on top it can cause overpressure, also if they hit the driver port it can cause it. In my over 500 games its happened a good few times. However as I said, it can happen with almost any tank I’ve used so its a moot point.

@luque13

CR2 also has no spall liners
And its ammo is stored in centre of the tank.

Uhm mate, if you’re gonna bounce into a thread about Germany, and say “CR2s suffer” essentially, then at least make sure you aren’t making stuff up All CR2s have a turret and frontal hull spall liner. While innacurate apparently to be the full hull, they very much do have spall liners.

apart from CR3 TD but that thing is an absolute joke

@Panther2995

Did you expect different experience while grinding British Tree? Cause i didnt.

Entire point of Grinding British Tree is to play with Challengers, not other vehicles.

For me was to play the Chieftains actually :D , the CR2’s right now but are such a poor state man, While I can be nationalistic and would love to, i genuinely do not use the damn things at all now. Rather use the CR1’s at 10.7

@Panther2995

Not really, when my upper frontal plate ricochet rounds it doesnt take out my breach.

Eh ive had it happen, in leopard 2a5 /6, abrams, WZ1001, T80s, its not an excusively CR2 issue at all, its actually more likely to richochete into the damn driver port xD…

I will add the turret ring for the CR2 models right now is ridiculously out of place it sits far higher than it should, especially under the breach.

Please, take him with a grain of salt.

And on the good news! at least germany has a good piece of cas now thats competitive. last time I was on this topic (I think) we were saying German CAS was suffering a lot. Which it was

[Panther2995]

@An_Pigeon

For me was to play the Chieftains actually :D , the CR2’s right now but are such a poor state man, While I can be nationalistic and would love to, i genuinely do not use the damn things at all now. Rather use the CR1’s at 10.7

Tbh im enjoying my Chally2’s a lot, dont know why tbh.

@An_Pigeon

I will add the turret ring for the CR2 models right now is ridiculously out of place it sits far higher than it should, especially under the breach.

Meh, since im use to turret ring weakness from Abrams i didnt even noticed to begin with.

@An_Pigeon

And on the good news! at least germany has a good piece of cas now thats competitive. last time I was on this topic (I think) we were saying German CAS was suffering a lot. Which it was

Well both nations recieved amazing CAS abilities, i think only thing Germany is missing are more armored Leopards at this point.

Also Brimstone 2’s for all EFT’s.

[luque13]

@An_Pigeon

Uhm mate, if you’re gonna bounce into a thread about Germany, and say “CR2s suffer” essentially, then at least make sure you aren’t making stuff up All CR2s have a turret and frontal hull spall liner. While innacurate apparently to be the full hull, they very much do have spall liners.

CR2 has spall liners for the side of the turret and the top of the turret no hull protection. It also has some of the lowest turret armour from the sides and is easily penetrated by small darts.
Leopard 2A5/6 has a massive increase in turret armour when shot from the side. So much so if we do a comparison the Leopard 2A5 (and above) side turret profile is immune to the 2S38 dart. The CR2 is not which makes the spall liner a moot point as anything at that BR will penetrate you.

[An_Pigeon]

@Panther2995

Tbh im enjoying my Chally2’s a lot, dont know why tbh.

An Pigeon:

Bad doesn’t necessarily mean un fun.
Like they aren’t good tanks, and personally I no longer enjoy them that much, however I did have enough fun to use them for over 500 games.

Im glad you are enjoying them TBH its a breath of fresh air from folks just complaining. (like me xD)

@Panther2995

Meh, since im use to turret ring weakness from Abrams i didnt even noticed to begin with.

An Pigeon:

Yeah, It was cause the tarpolen above the breach had a model error with a gap, so to resolve it they just moved the model up xD meaning under the breach is a huge turret ring spot now.
But seeing as most rounds pass through the hull its irrelevant.

@Panther2995

Well both nations recieved amazing CAS abilities, i think only thing Germany is missing are more armored Leopards at this point.

for this I didn’t mean it as a comparisson with britain or that, I mean now germany, is now highly competitive, when before it was an absolutely struggle for cas that was even on a level bellow the competition. Ef2000 is a fantastic addition for Germany!.

Hopefully the get the F18 for sweden by the time im at the top tier for em xD

(dont ask me why, but im going for the mig29G before the EF2000).

@Panther2995

Also Brimstone 2’s for all EFT’s.

While I agree, I also think ground at top tier is needing a rework now, to compensate for all these insanely potent air frames (and ground platforms). A rework allowing better SPAA systems for other nations that can compete, and allowing for some form of balance to the cas.

But yes, Brim 2 and such.

[An_Pigeon]

@luque13

CR2 has spall liners for the side of the turret and the top of the turret no hull protection. It also has some of the lowest turret armour from the sides and is easily penetrated by small darts.

The CR2 literally has a spall liner in the front of the hull lad. someone with the multitude of games in them such as you should know what it has in it.

It has a spall liner on the frontal arc of the hull, when as far as ive seen ti should be around the sides too.

@luque13

Leopard 2A5/6 has a massive increase in turret armour when shot from the side. So much so if we do a comparison the Leopard 2A5 (and above) side turret profile is immune to the 2S38 dar

It is infact not immune to the 2s38 dart, and seeing as youve never actively used a 2a5 or 2a6 I find it abbhorent you come here to tell these folks how they work.

Seeing as Ive got them and the CR2s , I will tell you the 2a5 and 6 are better than CR2s, but spouting stuff like this is just false. You can one tap a leopard 2a5 or 2a6 with 3bm25 from a T55AM1 if you actually know how to aim,

Second of all, the 2S38 absolutely annhilates leopard 2’s bar the 2a7 due to the increased protection.

Lastly for this point, the 2a5 and 2a6 have their ammunition bustle in the back of the turret-
which for a 2s38 is a one tap. heres both the shot and the whole green tank side.

so no, “side turret profile is immune to the 2S38 dart” this is infact just false. completely.

Which by the way you said yourself not an hour ago the projection maps aren’t reliable. the 2s38 can and does scythe through the 2a5, 2a6 and 2PL turret sides.

@luque13

The CR2 is not which makes the spall liner a moot point as anything at that BR will penetrate you.

Also not true. CR2 turret is about the only thing that isn’t horrifyingly bad.

@luque13

CR2 has spall liners for the side of the turret and the top

Also has them for the front of the turret.
How can you deny that its literally there in photos above and clearly visable in Xrays.

Look I have my own opinions on Germany, as @dotSHINI will tell you that I have some opinions on the tree.
However, you cannot just bounce into a thread for them to chat about the tree and such, and start firing out completely false facts and information on the CR2’s as a comparisson. We are all aware that the CR2’s are plagued with issues.
That doesn’t mean the leopards aren’t, or the abrams, or the T series tanks.
etc etc, all of these tanks have lists of bug reports for them
And truth be told until germany got the EF2000 they really, really fell short for a good choice of CAS, even britain had the gripen which while not perfect was potent af.

[luque13]

I was mistaken about the spall liner in front of the tank. It certainly seems like there isn’t one
The turret one looks more like the extension of the roof liner meeting the turret cheeks and not situated behind the mantlet and the turret cheeks.

Shooting ammo in the 2A5/6 doesn’t kill it though they just retreat and repair if they are hull down it’s a nothing shot. Side armour the Leopard can protect it’s breach the CR2 cant.

This discussion could go on in perpetuity i’m going to bow out :)

[ShOt_MaCkEr]

That’s because you’ve lost the argument

[luque13]

There wasn’t an argument we both agree CR2 is bad

[Panther2995]

Its not as bad as you claimed to be.

Sure it has its own downsize but they are actually rather enjoyable and solid tanks, they are just not on Leopar2A7V/Strv122 level thats all.

[luque13]

They are a palate cleanser. They are slow and meticulous a completely different play style to a Leopard 2. A fun novelty.

[UnHolySausage]

I like more muh type 10 aggresive gameplay

[Panther2995]

@luque13

They are a palate cleanser. They are slow and meticulous a completely different play style to a Leopard 2. A fun novelty.

They are not that slow, especially First Chally2,Black Knight and 2E.

[Panther2995]

@UnHolySausage

I like more muh type 10 aggresive gameplay

I do as well but i also enjoy Challenger’s playstyle.

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@Panther2995

They are not that slow, especially First Chally2,Black Knight and 2E.

Maybe not slow in terms of top speed but very chonky and annoying to manouver.

[luque13]

Thats the issue in a straight line they are fine moving to a ridge to fire and is so unbearable slow.
And yes turning gaijin needs to model modern tank steering and torque.

[An_Pigeon]

They are pretty bad tbh man.

Luque claimed they were absolutely useless which isnt true.

But they are not excellent tanks, id verge on saying they arent even solid, but ill reserve that statement until i get the leclercs and merkavas.

[An_Pigeon]

They lose too much speed turning and are far heavier than other tanks for recovering said speed.

59kmph is fast enough but in the straight line regard.

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

I will say dm13 shatters a lot on the 105mm on tanks like 1a5 a1a1

[An_Pigeon]

Leopard 2k is a phenomenal tank even for 10.0

[An_Pigeon]

Dm13 on 105?

Dm13 on the leopard 1a1 is potent af man