Light tanks being able to destroy heavy tanks is fine, as many were built with this in mind. Heavy tanks are often for defense, so if they suffer on the offensive well, that is very true to canon and what happened IRL. Same reason the battleship died off. Big heavy targets tend to be popular targets, and nothing prevents a light tank from just being faster with a better gun. This is reality, and their is no reason it shouldn’t be reality in the game.
Then check again what you consider reality. Back when heavy tanks were popular, no light tank was ever designed to counter heavy tanks.
Tanks are never made for defense, that’s the opposite of the idea behind their creation. Heavies especially, are made to attack heavily defend forts and defenses, not to sit around in a corner.
In the game, light tanks are currently OP, they have chemical rounds able to pen anything, enough armour to stop machineguns but not enough to detonate the fuse in the shells. “no armour is best armour”.
1 Like
The way I see it, 1BR lower should have a CHANCE of killing a heavy, but no guarantee.
And 1BR higher should be able to deal with heavies most of the time.
1 Like
Exactly, and that’s why I believe that lower BRs are more balanced.
The EBR 1951 for example, has only 104mm of pen and is unable to destroy a Tiger from the front, as it should be.
To destroy a heavy, which is basically a fortress on tracks, you have to be good, hide and wait for a weakspot, or flank it but it shouldn’t be just a point and click.
That’s also one of the main reaon i don’t like top tier. There are hundreds of light rats with autocanons or recoiless guns that just have to look at you in order to kill you. Heavies have no point in top tier…
I think we have different perspectives on the disappearance of the battleships, I am not an expert on the matter but I understood that the battleships became obsolete due to their limited capacity compared to the aircraft carriers, battleship expensive vehicle to build, limited firing range and the relatively cheap aircraft carriers with the capacity to carry planes, capable practically by themselves of sinking ships, also with a range infinitely superior to that of battleships.
Not because a battleship was big and heavy made it more desirable as a target, it was capital ships. The doctrine of all the countries was that if you destroyed the fleet of capital ships of another country you won, that was a capital ship, in the same way when it was shown that the aircraft carriers were much more efficient these became the capital ships, the most desirable , not because of its size or armor .
I’m pretty sure if planes and aircraft carriers didn’t exist, battleships would still be the capital ships.
On another occasion , if you wish , I can explain to you what the combat doctrines of the battleships were like , which have little or nothing to do with a heavy tank .
I think I can understand the comparison you want to make , but believe me they are completely different concepts .
Totally broken OP vehcile, absolutely:
1 Like
That isn’t entirely true. I will use the o279 as an example. If you read about how its testing went one of the reasons its project was cancelled and quoted by the russia itself was because they put a 60 ton limit on new vehicles at the time. One of their concerns is the vehicle was so heavy it wouldn’t be able to cross their own bridges in defense of the homeland, which it was supposed to play a key role.
Also if you look, and I know the user manual for crew specifically says over and over “The M18 is not a tank” but light vehicles and light tank destroyers being able to wreck heavy tanks was absolutely a problem early on.
That was one of the reasons Yamato was kept in the back, and lots of times only a show of force. They were big targets, and with the implementation of better weapons like guided bombs/missiles at the time she was at huge risk. Smaller relatively cheap weapons was part of her demise.
List of Vehicles the 279 should NEVER face (wip)
Merkava 2D
OF-40
DF105
Type 16 FPS
9.7 in general
If the USH-405(1950s) has to face the XM-1. Then the o279 is fine facing 9.7.
No it isn’t.
Also, USH is a Light Vehicle that cannot be compared to the 279 Heavy Tank.
Their is zero reason why the o279 shouldn’t face things that can kill it. russian vehicle players don’t even have to learn to aim. Thousands of posts of people on this forum and reddit who talk about going from playing normal nations to point and click russia and laugh about how much easier it is. Maybe its time we stopped coddling russian players and let them face the same reality.
o279 should see a br increase, and it will be just fine. They can just learn to aim and use tactics like they point out to other players. Its ok for the o279 to face weapons that can kill it as easily as it kills others.
the first USH-405 was prototyped in 1960, so it should have basically the same BR as the obj279.
The Obj 279 should only fight thing from the same technological era as it, shit with darts thermals and lrf should all be beyond its range of BR.
Merkava 2D and Type 16 I can get behind.
OF-40 and DF-105 are mid tho.
please explain why. Its already the best 8.7 by a LONG margin and you want to help it out? sounds like trolling to me.
Just had another game where the russian team folded except for a 279. He rolled aronud the map vs 8.7 france and brits and murdered everything. Died once and rolled back in a backup. Then dropped a nuke.
My chieftan couldn’t pen the ufp weakpoint in two shots because it was slightly angled. Best loctaion are pixel weak points or yellow pen. It OHK’d me through the fucking 280mm turret. My conq couldn’t pen it with a 487 pen apds (seriously, look at the pen map on that round vs that tank, its nearly impossible at anything beyond point blank).
there is zero reason it should remain at the same BR as the chieftan. 298mm apds vs 360mm aphe isn’t balanaced. OBJ has better armor and is faster. Chieftan has literally nothing going for it.
This has never been the case in war thunder for other nations, why are we making an exception for russian? The russian 2S38 (2023) is placed at a BR where it faces 1970s helicopters. The russian pt-76 is set at a BR where it fights ww2 tanks despite being cold war technology with a 5 second reload and a stabilizer.
But you want to make an exception to this rule for russia? By the way the only reason russia doesn’t face darts and proxy rounds is because they have neglected to give other nations the proper loadouts. APFSDS and Proxy rounds were developed before the o279 existed.
So explain to me why russia gets a special pass?
I was scanning that flank so much, how am I supposed to see a bushed up Ru-251 hiding in more bushes
Best 8.7?
Lets do a comparison.
Every 8.7 MBT/Heavy:
Object 279: Armor that withstands APDS, but is penned by APFSDS & HEATFS.
Cannon with an APCBC round that is less potent than 3BM8 in pen, but post-pen does damage.
No rangefinder. Has a stab. Std night vision.
Shot Kal Gimel, Not the fastest but gets the job done. Armor can resist some HEAT.
Meta APFSDS round of M111 that lolpens everything at 8.7. Laser rangefinder. Stab. Std night vision.
Magach 6, Same as Gimel without the laser rangefinder but more armor.
Strv 104, Identical to Gimel.
T-55M, Similar to Strv 104.
AMX-30B2- Best round at 8.7 2nd to none, fast, no armor, thermals, no stab.
Type59D1- Identical to T-55M but with thermals.
Type 88- Identical to T55M.
Chieftain Mk3/5- Armor that can withstand APCBC, some APDS. HEATFS & APFSDS is somewhat effective against it.
Slow, stab, no laser rangefinder. Round isn’t the best but better than some at its BR.
T-55AMD1- Laser rangefinder, stab, okay APFSDS round, good HEATFS, armor identical to all other T-55s, somewhat fast.
M60A1 RISE- Okay APFSDS round, stab, normal rangefinder, decent armor.