Let's fairly talking about why Pantisr-S1 should higher then any other SPAA

Game Discussion General Discussion
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The latest preview of the top-tier BR change showed us several things, and we know the final objective of this kind of change is to make a better environment.

However, I want to talk about the Pantisr-S1 separately here since it’s the SPAA should not stay at the same BR as the NATO SPAA. The Pantisr-S1 has the highest combat efficiency and its performance has already crushed other SPAA even not at the same level. And It’s have been a year since Pantisr-S1 came out, and I will say it’s definetly become more powerful now since they made a tiny change to the GBU to let it easily get destroyed by Pantisr-s1,

RADAR

So here is the first sector that talks about Pantisr-S1.
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It has the best radar among all the SPAA with 80 degrees and TWS lock on which means enemy aircraft except Heli will not be notified when you lock on them.

Ammo

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And second, it has the best SAM missile among all the SPAA systems. The best NATO SPAA ITO-90M get VT1 and 12km range ammo which can not stop Su-25SM3 lunch Kh38mt from its range. But Pantisr-s1 with 95Ya6m and its 18km range just almost immediately destroyed any NATO CAS plane who try to launch AGM65 or GBU. Be simple, NATO SPAA can’t stop Su25SM3, but Pantisr-S1 can stop F16C.

Balance

As one of the latest SPAA systems in the game, I agree the Pantistr-S1 should have good performance, with Gen3 thermal, and good PESA radar, also as the characteristic of Russian SPAA, it has twin 2A38M.
And it even has the ability to fire the missiles during its move.

But the thing is, at the same BR. The other SPAA system is just really like a joke.

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These two guys are on the same BR. And we reviewed the reason why we need to add an SPAA system like Pantisr-s1 because we knew the CAS is strong, but Pantisr-S1 is stronger when you facing the planes who are still can only use GBU-16 or AGM-65B without laser pod.

And now the Top tier game will just be like The Russian CAS will easily launch 4 KH38MT to destroy targets without being attacked or even drive out by the NATO SPAA System. But NATO CAS have to be careful as soon as they spawn in the air and have to immediately thinking about go high or low. And they have to be careful because the effective range of AGM65 will be much shorter than KH38. And some other countries can still only launch AS30L or GBU-16 Paveway. This kind of weapon needs the carrier guide all the time without maneuver too strong.

At the end, I strongly suggest to make the Pantisr-S1 the higher BR SPAA, maybe same as 16C or lower 0.3 then 16C.

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Don’t forget that the ADATS’s are also 11.7, and the OTOMATIC is only a single step below.

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I still remember when the Pantsir was being added and so many people were saying to not add it because nothing competes with it.
That still holds true.

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The pantsir’s stats are crazy and i honestly dont see how its the same br as any 11.7 spaa and a step above the Otto and type 81.
Its better as an AA platform in every possible scenario and can at least be a 12.0 spaa, even 12.3.

But who stops all those 11.7 American cas planes from wrecking havoc when the pantsir moves up ? i’d rather hit the deck every cas run than turn 11.7 into 12.7.

Let the pantsir stay at 11.7 until better SPAA are added for all nations

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Pantsir is currently borderline useless at 11.7, so it shouldn’t go up.
Other SPAA could be 0.3 lower.

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useless is a very strong word for the only spaa dictating the skies from the ground, the current 11.7’s shouldn’t go down, ever. What’s a 10.3 plane like the jaguar going to do against a flarakrad, with 12km missiles? it cant even identify it using its rwr

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It doesn’t do that, never has.

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so you’re telling me the presence of a pantsir doesnt change how aircraft approach the battle ?

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The issue is that apart from China (and some others I might be forgetting) there is no better SPAA for other countries, at least to match the range of the Pantsir. They didn’t invest in SPAA like the Soviets/Russians did, because the West had like 8 billion airpower and could just sky sweep.
The next AA that would be added for a lot of Western countries is the HAWK or I-HAWK. And that’s something I’d rather leave to ai controlled SAM batteries in air.

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so just like the usual, the only options are to grind for power crept stuff or be left coping.

sad british adats noises

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It changes nothing because I was doing those tactics when Pantsir wasn’t in the game.
Still haven’t died to a Pantsir while running a CAS run despite hundreds of battles.

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sure you did. Its totally believable that the pantsir is a useless spaa and you’ve never died to it before

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it’s been a year, how long you gonna want wait?

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SLAMRAAM/NASAMS HML are both more modern but definitely fill that gap at top tier.

Additionally we could fill out some of the NATO AD shortcomings by populating missing vehicles and fixing the missile performance/modeling

Tracked Rapier, M6 Linebacker, M-SHORAD, Poprad, CAMM, Avenger/Starstreak Avenger/Guardian

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Im now sure how consistent SLAMRAAM/NASAMS would be at.

Excluding SL-AMRAAM ER, SLAMRAAMs don’t use a added booster motor to help them, meaning they will waste alot of energy getting up to speed and coupled with the fact that the M1097/HML that carries them don’t have their own radar (That I know of), the missile would need to be pitbulled to even track anything.

Im not against them being added, just given my current view on this matter I don’t personally foresee SLAMRAAMS having amazing performance.

M6/Poprad/Avenger isn’t going to effect top tier outside of more MANPAD trucks that people would spawn in, which doesn’t fix the problem.

Tracked Rapier/XMIM-46…is iffy. If would sit either at 10.3 or 10.7 given their range is 8km. Rapier should have no radar lock. Rapier would depend on which missile variant Gaijin would want to model.

As much as I would love to see the modern SL super maneuverable missiles be added as the next step for SPAA additions, thats unfortunately isn’t going to happen…for a long time.

Literally every country aside from Russia/China?/Japan? (China and Japan would depend) would have nearly undodgeable 40G+ missiles.

  • USA - AIM-9X (15 km)
  • Israel - Python 5 (20 km)
  • Germany - IRIS-T AAM / SLS (25 km / 12 km)
  • UK - CAMM (25 km)
  • Italy - CAMM (25 km)
  • France - AIM-9X / IRIS-T AAM (15 km / 25 km)
  • Sweden - IRIS-T AAM / SLS / RBS 23 / AIM-9X (25 km / 12 km / 20 km / 15 km)

I cringe inside every time I see this line of text. On a doctrine basis, yes Soviets invested more in SHORAD systems.

Depends on how modern you want to go.

USA -
M1097/HML: SL-AMRAAM ER (40 km @ 40G - ARH)

Germany -
IRIS-T: AAM/SLS/SLM (25 km/12 km/40 km @ 60G - IR)
Skyguard-M: HFK L2/HV (16 km/16-50 km @ 50-100G - SACLOS/IR)

USSR -
Pantsir-S1M: 57E6M-E (30 km @ 32G+ - SACLOS)

UK -
EMADS: CAMM/CAMM-ER (25 km/45 km @ 50G - ARH)
G6-HVM: SAVH-3 (12-15km @ 40G - LOSBR)

Japan -
Shafted, LMAO.

China -
WZ-551D: PL-9C (22 km @ 40G - IR)
LD-2000: PL-9 (15 km @ 35G - IR)
China as alot of SPAA systems but any information on their missile performance doesn’t exists. I have only listed the system that I have such information on.

Italy -
EMADS: CAMM/CAMM-ER (25 km/45 km @ 50G - ARH)
B1 Draco: DART (10 km @ 40G - RF)

France -
ITO/R440: Crotale Mk.3 VT-1 (16 km @ 50G - SACLOS)
ACSV G5: IRIS-T AAM (25 km @ 60G - IR) / AIM-9X (15 km @ 60G - IR)

Sweden -
RBS-98: IRIS-T SLS (12 km @ 60G - IR)
BAMSE SRSAM: RBS-23 (20 km @ ?G - SACLOS)
ACSV G5: IRIS-T AAM (25 km @ 60G - IR) / AIM-9X (15 km @ 60G - IR)

Israel -
SPYDER-AIO: Python 5 (20 km @ ?G - LOAL IR) / I-Derby ER (50 km @ ?G - ARH)

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Rapier has IRT and HMS, Blindifre adds Radar lock.

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The air launched AMRAAM has a 100-150 km range. Even from a ground launch that would give NATO nations AD parity with the Pantasir at minimum. (It and the USMC CLAWS were expected to have roughly a 25km engagement envelope.) The last versions had amraams and AIM-9X’s

https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/defense-systems/surfaced-launched-advanced-medium-range-air-to-air-missile-slamraam/

Given the status of current AD assets in WT, it would be by far the best performer.

But it didn’t have its own radar it was ground data linked. I’m simply offering systems that did/do exist that fill the gaps in AD coverage. Because ADATS is dogshit, and many nations have a very real hole in capability once you get past the Marksman/Gepard level vehicles.

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This is a simple modeling/coding fix.

At current, the missiles do not perform as well as they should. Nerf the flare rejection and drag profiles to make them more lethal and it will suddenly be way less safe to be in the skies.

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So far Gaijin have had ~three almost four months (and two Major updates in that time) since the following reports were acknowledged, so it may be adjusted at some point.

“Add Contrast lock on Range extension mechanic to POST Seeker equipt missiles”
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/LbD7XSmoaAJc

“Increase Maneuverability of the FIM-92 to 20-22G’s, or so”
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/yUohrEMuQLna

“Lock-on range extended to ~6-7km for Stinger”
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/CrgLh51VkpQZ

Stormer Air Defence 2
Stormer Air Defence 21044×1529 134 KB

To some degree this should also impact other Western MANPADS like the Mistral as well.

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Ive never seen alvis say something that isnt obviously looking for clout, just let him has his thoughts. Pantsir is the most effective SPAA in game, and you always see this guy in pantsir posts, saying he never died to them.

1 Like