If your idea of flanking is bull rushing down the side of a street then there are better “flanking” vehicles than the A1A1 at 8.7
Flanking is way different than sniping, so shouldn’t be put in the same basket. Flanking is an active playstyle, you will often move quite a lot, depending on what’s happening on the map.
Also, you should expect some resistance on your flanking route, enemies might be trying to flank your team so you will be actively fighting for position there.
At that point your lack of stabilization will be very costly.
Find me a 8.7 medium that’s better at flanking than A1A1.
The stabilizer gives the A1A1 a sizable advantage over the AMXs for flanking, for a very simple reason. Reaction speed. Flanking involves pushing a potentially vulnerable spot and unless you have godlike scouts who are UAVing your route for you, you run the risk of running headlong into an enemy flanker pushing the same route. A situation where the AMXs don’t stand a chance against anything they’re likely to run into. Whereas the Leo is at least on equal footing, and it’s a contest of who can click the other first. This forces the AMXs to have a much more passive playstyle, they have to rely on getting the drop on their enemy, so they’re less effective when actively flanking than their competition.
Sure, when it comes to the sniping portion, their thermals and LRF do give the AMXs an advantage. But even here, the lack of a stabilizer really bites. The only way to play a sniper and not have your head taken off by a countersniper at that tier is to sit behind a hill or concealment and use your binocs to spot targets for you. You then roll out, range in the target, fire the shot, then instantly reverse back into cover before you get hit in return.
The AMXs, being unstabilized, are much slower to do this than other snipers at the tier. This effectively means you cannot risk taking shot on enemies who are looking in your direction, or who know you’re there. And it greatly increases the risk that an enemy sniper will notice you when you poke out and take your turret off while you’re distracted. The LRF does make it more effective at longer ranges, but honestly, I’d probably still take the stabilizer for the versitility of it. The LRF is only useful at long ranges, while the stabilizer is useful anywhere.
At full speed yes but rolling the gun sway won’t kill you if you’re careful with it.
Range beforehand or use Binos to range
Only if you decide to play them that way.
For your definition of flanking I don’t want a medium tank.
You think flanking means running up on the enemy. For this I’d rather have a lighter vehicle.
Yes, if you let it.
this practically kills all your points about having no LRF. (not even mentioning the fact some 8.7 tanks dont get it)
Do you not understand how LRF works in War Thunder or what
I do, yet you seem to finally start seeing your own points fail. Its no big deal having to take a second to rangefind and set distance with rangefinder. Other tanks without even rangefinder have to guess it (after 1 km) and it pretty much means first shot wont hit half the time unlike with rangefinder.
You do and then understand that LRF provides accurate range nearly instantly across any distance while regular rangefinding isn’t accurate past 800 meters, you do understand that right?
Rangefinder present on Leopard A1A1 can accurately measure distance up to 3km. It wont set it auto and wont guve you perfect moments yet its better than being stuck with long waiting for it to show “>800”. You not knowing this shows you dont know what Rangefinder modification is.
Up to 2,000 meters, and it doesn’t set the range as you noted.
more than enough
and again, no big problem.
We have quite two different opinions on what is enough when it comes to rangefinding.
I dont know man, setting distance yourself isnt that hard, or at least aiming up to match target and needed range. Game rarely goes beyond 2 km range.
We literally have T62 in game that is earliest version it could be. Since 1972 they were all being equipped with LRFs. Oh amd turret of T62 changed through production, becoming more protected and getting DSk (actually present on T62m-1 in game)
Just ranting. At the same time we literally dont have Leopard with A4 turrets.
Or for example T62A with its improved 100mm cannon. I would love to have improved APBCs as well as slightly better APDS over T54.
So you have to drive around at less than full speed. While flanking. I hope you can see the problem with this.
Not only is coasting much less effective at high speed, it’s even less effective when you have to deal with rough or uneven terrain. If the gradient you’re on happens to shift, or if you roll over a shell crater, or over debris, your shot’s going off target. And your opponent most likely doesn’t have that problem. You have to work so hard, and put yourself under less than optimal conditions, just to get back on a level playing field with your opponent.
Remember, your premise wasn’t that the AMX-30 can be just as good as the Leopard while flanking, it was that the AMX-30s are better than the Leo. For the better reverse speed once you’ve accelerated. And the now mostly useless 20mm, I guess.
What maps actually give options for >2,000 meter engagements? Large Fields of Poland is the obvious one, but other than that? I guess there are some spots on large European Province, and a couple of absurdly long range sightlines on Sands of Sinai. Pradesh maybe, haven’t played that at top tier enough to know the sightlines. Not to mention that such long range shots aren’t a great idea even for LRF, the delay between firing and hitting is enough that sufficiently quick vehicles can actually juke shots in my experience. You’re usually better off pushing in and taking a more powerful position while your opponent trades shots with your team at maximum range.
For the vasty majority of maps and engagements, 2 km is plenty.
You can slow when coming to corners or on hearing engine noise of the enemy tank.
Any high tier map can have 2000+ range engagements. There are unfortunately many WW2 maps still at high tier.
They are, at flanking.
For “rushing” no, any stabilized tank is better at rushing.
The whole action of “seeing the enemy → getting out of cover → fire accurately → get back into cover” will take longer for a tank without stabilization, in each and every case.
You can’t play AMX-30s reliably while being aggressive. Lack of stabilization is the killer.
My definition is pretty on point. Not my fault you label sniping as flanking, while those two playstyles are completely different and shouldn’t be mixed up.
Flanking is literally a movement that puts you on enemies’ flank. You are actively trying to go around the majority of enemies while being unnoticed, and pounce from an unexpected angle, giving you really easy kills.
Problem starts when a couple of enemy tanks decide to try the same thing to your team, and use the same flanking route as you do. At this point, it’s given two of you will come head-to-head at one point, and reaction times will be key. Guess who’s reaction times will be crap because he lacks stabilization lol ?
Your premise here is that LoS will always be less than engine’s noise radius. This is pretty wrong, just as most things you keep spewing out.
Learn the differences between flanking and sniping before talking about those.
If you are CQC you aren’t flanking much
Controlling a flank means dominating the space, the AMX-30 is equipped with everything it needs to do that. The A1A1 is lacking critical features to help it achieve this.
As per everything else that’s been said in this thread your “flanking” problems are situational at best. If you’re talking about engaging someone from beyond engine noise then you’re firing at them from quite a ways a way, and only one of the tanks here has a LRF.
Having a stabilizer would be good but it’s what makes the AMX-30s such killer vehicles. It has all the features of a 9.3 tank but it’s placed at 8.7 (used to be 8.3). If you allow this beast to get control of a flank you will die.
“reliably why being aggressive”
Simply untrue, your lack of stabilizer only becomes an issue at speeds of 20+km/h, unless you are unaware of how to time your shot. The AMX-30 essentially has a lolpen round, you don’t need to do a lot of calculating on shot placement against other tanks of its BR range. It is versatile in close quarters due to its reverse speed and 20mm coax and at every other range dominates other tanks with its fire power.
The one and only situation where the AMX-30’s lack of a stabilizer becomes a true issue is when you’re running up on someone and you both come out at speed. Yes, at that moment you will be unable to counter the heavy sway and the engagement will be relegated to luck for you. These situations aren’t not common unless you make them so. You generally will hear an enemy coming or have LOS of them before you’re at such speed / position that they “run up on you” while you are going at an equal speed.
Space you will often have to fight for in the opening stages of the match. You will get in head-on engagements with other flankers while still moving and this is the main problem.
You are acting like you can hear enemies’ engine at a distances of over 800m lol.
AMX-30s are killer vehicles when camping behind the same rock for the entirety of the match. That’s pretty much the only playstyle it excels at, no wonder it has such a low BR with all those advantages.
Yes, let’s just drive 20km/h all the time, even when flanking :clown:
You aren’t driving on perfectly flat surfaces and going over uneven terrain will mess up your aim. There’s a pretty good reason why stabilization became a norm decades ago, but you are here trying to downplay the importance of said system. Another big :clown: moment.
aka just don’t play aggressively because the vehicle can’t handle it.
I’m pretty confident AMX-30s can reach 20km/h+ before you see anyone to shoot at.