gajin uses the swedish armor trial from 30 years ago, and thats what they all are based on.
Even specific mentions of upgraded armor, in case of 2a7V the hull armor has been increased to the same armor lvls of the turret got ignored
And oh yeah, gajin gives the strv122 which is based on the trail of 30y ago better armor then the 2a7v
Exactly. It makes absolutely no sense that a tank based on 30-year-old trials (Strv 122) has better hull protection than Germany’s modern production 2A7V. Gaijin’s cherry-picking of historical data just to keep the German tree artificially weak is dynamic balancing at its worst. If they won’t give the 2A7V its historically accurate hull armor and DM73, adding the 2A8 is the only fair compensation.
That makes sense. However, you could also argue that if the Leopard 2A7V is not even modeled correctly, what could we realistically expect from the Leopard 2A8? That’s pure speculation, of course, but it’s a question I’d like you to consider.
You’re right that Germany’s top-tier lineup is lacking and isn’t as competitive as those of other nations. I understand your point. However, I’m not sure whether adding the Leopard 2A8 is the right solution. At the moment, I think fixing the existing Leopard variants, giving Germany a stronger top-tier lineup with better CAS, and improving the IRIS-T might be the better approach before adding the Leopard 2A8.
You make a very solid point about the risk of Gaijin poorly modeling the 2A8 as well. However, adding a new vehicle usually forces Gaijin to implement newer, classified-adjacent data packages, which could baseline a better armor profile from day one. I also completely agree with you on the CAS and IRIS-T issues; Germany’s top-tier lacks modern multirole jets compared to the US or Russia. Fixing the 2A7V and buffing our air/AA capabilities would be ideal, but until Gaijin listens, we have to demand everything we can get to close the gap
Idk, I would have said the same for the US receiving 2 Abrams in the same update before this update. Hell I was about to give up hope for the SEPv3 after this update after nearly 2 years of waiting for it.
Unlikely? maybe. However it’s still possible.
only thing i know germany can look forward to next update is a new heli, i dont see gajin being gracious enough and bestow multiple areas to us
I was going to agree about Germany getting Leopard 2A8 until I read “Leopard 2A7V has poor armor and is stuck with the DM53”, to be honest, xD
Call it Leopard 2A8, call it Leopard 2E… so long as it has improved armor AND good thermals…
yeah that part is not quite right
I didn’t say the 2A7V is a trash tank. I’m saying it’s historically inaccurate and artificially nerfed. Compared to Strv 122’s hull armor, the 2A7V’s actual D-Tech package is missing, and it’s locked to DM53 while other nations get their top-tier modern rounds. It’s not about the tank being unplayable; it’s about Gaijin cherry-picking data to hold the German tree back
ehh, your initial statement was different
is different, then it being implemented is bad way.
Compared to other tanks the armor still is good.
Ignoring the armor holes, where gajin originaly promised us a DM rework 2 ayears ago
Fair enough, maybe ‘poor’ wasn’t the best word choice, but we both mean the same thing: it’s missing its historical values. And you’re completely right about the promised DM rework from 2 years ago. Gaijin just keeps delaying these fixes while German top-tier suffers from these artificial gaps. Hopefully, enough noise on the forums will force them to finally deliver on their promises
yes, but not everyone coming here will, and those reactions from others
See, this is what I mean
The L/55 Leopards still have the highest penetration in all of Top Tier;
1- DM53 (L/55): 652
2- M829A3: 633
3- DM53 (L/44): 623
4- Type 10: 615
5- M338: 611
6- 3BM60: 580
7- DTC10-125: 577
8- OFL 120 F1: 575
9- L27A1: 564
Of ALL issues Leopard 2A7V may have… having DM53 is NOT one of them.
This is also inaccurate: the Leclercs could have SHARD with over 700mm of pen, and U.S could have M829A4 with nearly 700mm of pen too. Also, many Top Tier shells are severely underperforming in one or more ways, like the Chinese one.
Also; while the armor is, yes, indeed underperforming, it’s also NOT “poor”. It’s still 670mm KE which no shell in Top Tier can go through.
The armor should be fixed… but it’s not “poor”. I just saw you just mentioned that “poor” wasn’t the best word choice, so I won’t beat around this any further, hahah. But I still add the reply to explain my reply above.
if looked at singular, it annoys me to no end that germany now lost there single advantage they had over sweden in their overall line up
I hope Germany begins getting more Leopards with 2nd and 3rd gen thermals.
Ideally, with improved armor too; but if not and if I had to pick between armor or thermals, I would probably go for the thermals, hahah.
In that spirit, I would warmly welcome even Leopard 2A7A1 or Leopard 2A6A3, as, even without substantial armor improvements, at least they would get 3rd Gen thermals.
That way, it would surpass Sweden in terms of thermal quality, which is one of the things that I really dislike about the 122s.
highly overvalued, from what i heared from specialist in the area its more of a DM53 equivalent.
Its main purpose is being a cheaper export variant for 120mm users
if you read the article i sent you it says that a few 2A8 units have already been delivered and the rest are expected to be seen in deliveries up to 2030’s and first few units were delivered to norway and germany for fielded testing and service, while germany’s has been kept more private because its expected to implement a different LWS and an additional unspecified system, its already been delivered and being fielded for testing
shouldnt have called it in service since none of them are in service either, but being fielded for testing, that’s my bad
You’re right about the raw flat penetration numbers. But top-tier meta isn’t just about flat numbers; it’s about handling heavy angled armor and ERA (like Relikt). Modern rounds like DM73 aren’t just for ‘more flat pen’, they provide much better angled performance and higher muzzle velocity to defeat modern armor arrays reliably. Since Gaijin already models underperforming hull armor on the 2A7V, giving it the historically accurate DM73 is the most logical way to balance its combat capability against over-performing opponent lineups
L/55 DM53’s angled performance still surpasses any other shell by the same degree it surpasses their flat pen, it’s basically directly proportional.
However, DM53 is underperforming in one way; Gaijin refuses to give it its anti-ERA tip, which would be a bit worse than M829A3’s, but still help a lot against K-5, specially since it has a higher base pen anyway to make up for it, so it would be able to slice through K-5 tanks as reliabily, if not more, as M829A3.
In that spirit, L27A1 is also missing its anti-ERA tip, although it would probably not help a lot, since the shell has such a low base penetration (bug reported too).
DM73 its just about DM53 levels in pen while DM63 actually reduces penetration, DM73 its more gimmick than anything mostly because it cant be blown up with anything, it wont even spread fire